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<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">"Use of the
registry database for policy enforcement is not supportive of the primary reason
for the existence of the registry system (there is a reason it's called a
"registry"). It is also self-defeating. Get enough folks doing
"transfers" outside of registry database and the database is no longer
meaningful."</SPAN><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">Yup, I
suppose....and I guess it's no fault blaming those individuals who do not heed
the community's standards by going outside of policy....no, let's consider ARIN
to be at fault for responding to community consensus. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><FONT
size=2>Hi Bill,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><FONT
size=2>We consider ARIN policy to be at fault and are seeking community
consensus to change that policy, Do you have a problem with that
approach?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">I know that
what this back and forth is about....policy discussion and development....to see
whether the community has had a see change...but what I see is that a few people
who want it their way...continue to flame the status quo for maintaining its
focus...to my mind...where it still should be. Scare resource? Given them
to people who NEED them. If the community should be outrage about something, it
should be those who contribute to the weakness of he database, not those who's
stewardship has not failed.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">bd</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><BR></SPAN></DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><FONT
size=2>Bill, nobody is *giving* addresses to anybody, regardless of their NEEDS,
so you can disabuse yourself of that pie-eyed notion. And what is flaming the
status quo? Way to encourage participation. I suppose it’s better to leave the
community in their repose of silent focus. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><FONT
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><FONT
size=2>Let’s cut out the stewardship failed nonsense, you are accusing both RIPE
and APNIC communities of failed stewardship because their opinion doesn’t match
your personal one.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><FONT
size=3 face=Calibri>Regards,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><FONT
size=3 face=Calibri>Mike</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><FONT
size=3 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=3 face=Calibri></FONT><FONT size=3
face=Calibri></FONT><FONT size=3 face=Calibri></FONT><BR></DIV></SPAN>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 6:50 AM, David Conrad <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:drc@virtualized.org"
target=_blank>drc@virtualized.org</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">Gary and Bill,
<DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Jun 12, 2014, at 6:37 AM, Bill Darte <<A
href="mailto:billdarte@gmail.com" target=_blank>billdarte@gmail.com</A>>
wrote:</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">Gary
said...</SPAN></DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">
<DIV></DIV></SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">
<DIV>"need" is not the same as "want" (see the</DIV></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">$10K red button app
that was offered for</SPAN><BR
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">awhile; can anyone
explain why anyone</SPAN><BR
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">would "need"
it). And while some may</SPAN><BR
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">exchange money for
only "want"s, those</SPAN><BR
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">that can
demonstrate "need" can get those</SPAN><BR
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">transfers approved
today and have the</SPAN><BR
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">registry updated
today. Only the "wants"</SPAN><BR
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">are having a hard
time. And, in my opinion,</SPAN><BR
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">that is as it
should be.</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>big +1</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV>
<DIV>While I consider the angst associated with speculators (or whoever)
buying up all the address space overblown (hint: it would merely shorten the
already short time horizon of when IPv4 addresses are no longer practically
available), the issue I'm most concerned with is "and have the registry
updated today."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I do not believe given sufficient "want" and money that the lack of
updating the registry would sufficient deterrent to preclude a "transfer" from
occurring. The end result being that the address space is no longer
traceable after the transfer.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Use of the registry database for policy enforcement is not supportive of
the primary reason for the existence of the registry system (there is a reason
it's called a "registry"). It is also self-defeating. Get enough
folks doing "transfers" outside of registry database and the database is no
longer meaningful.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I would have no issue with using other tools at ARIN's disposal for
policy enforcement, e.g., removing reverse delegations, marking entries in the
database as "out of policy" and letting ISPs decide for themselves whether to
accept a prefix for routing, invoking contractual penalties, etc. </DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV>-drc</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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