<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Brandon Ross <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bross@pobox.com" target="_blank">bross@pobox.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="">On Wed, 11 Jun 2014, Matthew Petach wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I cannot absolutely prevent you from stealing my furniture<br>
if you so desire. However, that doesn't mean I'm not going<br>
to put a lock on my front door to at least make it harder for<br>
you, and make it patently clear that you're doing so against<br>
my express desires.<br>
</blockquote>
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As has been mentioned here before, stealing furnature is a criminal offence, writing a contract giving exclusive rights to address space is not. That's a pretty crucial difference. If breaking and entering and stealing furnature were legal, the small help of a lock on my porch screen door would make little difference to a "bad actor". Locks keep honest people honest, but if an activity is not widely agreed to be immoral, locks won't help.</blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>The only way an action becomes a criminal offense<br>is if we bring the government in for enforcement.<br>Thus far, as a community, we've been doing our<br>best to not reach out to governments, which means<br>
nothing within the realm of number policy can ever<br></div><div>be a criminal offense. I would think the community<br>would still consider some of the number resource<br>activities to be of a nature equivalent to what would<br>
be called a criminal activity, even if it does not hold<br>that official designation according to the laws of the<br>land.<br><br></div><div>(That is, if I were to willfully announce IP space <br></div><div>registered to someone else, the community would<br>
</div><div>designate that as "wrong" and consider it to be<br>a criminal act, even though no law of the land<br>says that 32-bit address space has the same<br>level of consideration as property.)<br></div><div>Putting it another way--it is perfectly legal for<br>
me to hijack your IP space; there is no law<br>that disallows it. Doesn't make it right according<br></div><div>to our community. So, arguing that one case<br>is a criminal offense while the other is not a<br></div>
<div>criminal offense does not make the non-criminal<br>offense any less wrong; it just means we don't<br>yet have a law on the books defining it as such.<br><br></div><div class=""> <br>
><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I'll ask plainly; for everyone voting for needs-free<br>
transfers; would you still vote that way, *if in doing<br>
so, you were guaranteed to not be able to obtain<br>
any number resources under the new policy*?<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I don't have any address resources now, and I don't ever plan on having any in the future, so sure, why not?</blockquote><div><br></div><div>My apologies; I misunderstood what your<br>position was--and I thank you for your<br>
feedback to my question.<br> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
If not, I would claim your votes are not guided by<br>
the good of the community; they're guided by<br>
self-interest, and a hope and desire that you can<br>
get something for less effort than you can by following<br>
the current guidelines.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
Oh really?<br>
<br>
Much like Owen, I have a nice little business of helping small organizations navigate the ARIN process to get address space. It's not a majority of my income, but it's pretty nice and easy work for me. If needs basis goes away, guess what else goes away?<br>
<br>
Even though Owen and I are on opposite sides of this coversation, I can guarantee you right now that both of us, without fail, are arguing solely for what we think is best for the community.<br>
<br>
It's quite ironic that I would make more money by arguing on your side of the issue, isn't it?<br>
<br>
Or maybe my conspiracy is to get v4 to run out faster so I can make more money on v6 deployment?</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I apologize; I meant the "you" to be addressed to the<br>broader community, not to a particular individual. I was<br>
not aware of your activity in this arena, and it is good<br></div><div>background to be aware of; but the statement was<br>addressed to the plural "you" rather than the singular<br></div><div>"you"--dratted English, not giving us a distinctly plural<br>
form of "you" we can use to make it explicit.<br><br></div><div>I *will* note that I'm surprised--if you have no interest<br>in obtaining number resources, what would make you<br>vote one way vs the other, if the outcome is exactly <br>
the same for you either way?<br><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I'm sorry. I'm going to start saying things that<br>
will offend people, and I'll end up with a bunch<br>
of pissed off people if I continue.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
I believe you already have.<br>
<br>
Please only question my motives when you have evidence.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Would it help to say that I was questioning<br>everyone's motives, not just yours? Or would<br>that simply make my sin that much more<br>
</div><div>inclusive? :/<br><br></div><div>Thanks for the attitude correction--sometimes<br>it's good to be smacked in the head when I get<br>too fired up and start making overly broad<br>generalizations.<br><br></div>
<div>Thanks!<br><br>Matt<br> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
-- <br>
Brandon Ross Yahoo & AIM: BrandonNRoss<br>
<a href="tel:%2B1-404-635-6667" value="+14046356667" target="_blank">+1-404-635-6667</a> ICQ: 2269442<br>
Skype: brandonross<br>
Schedule a meeting: <a href="http://www.doodle.com/bross" target="_blank">http://www.doodle.com/bross</a><br>
<br>
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