<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">I am glad you presented the dark pools as an example. Let’s look at how much harm the dark pools and high frequency trading have done and the role of the parasites that profit from this environment and consider whether we want to legitimize or encourage such a thing for internet numbers.<div><br></div><div>I highly recommend the book “Flash Boys” for those who have not read it.</div><div><br></div><div>Owen</div><div><br><div><div>On Jun 6, 2014, at 10:40 AM, John Von Stein <<a href="mailto:John@qxccommunications.com">John@qxccommunications.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">My 2-cents on this thread …<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Having been in the commodity/derivative/equity trading businesses for 25 years before starting an ISP I concur that a Market will likely evolve for US IPv4. The fundamentals of Supply and Demand for IPv4 will prevail. It’s probably happening already, akin to the “dark pools” of off-exchange trading that were siphoning large amounts of trading volume away from the regulated equity exchanges. This community, including ARIN, can either embrace and guide this tectonic shift from single source of IP (ARIN) to a Market of IP address suppliers / consumers from the playing field or else be left with absolute control over essentially an empty bag of allocations and watching the aftermarket activity from the sideline.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thank you,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">John W. Von Stein<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><image001.jpg></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">102 NE 2<sup>nd</sup><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Street<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Suite 136<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Boca Raton, FL 33432<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Office: 561-288-6989<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a href="http://www.qxccommunications.com/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: blue;">www.QxCcommunications.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">-----Original Message-----<br>From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>] On Behalf Of Steven Ryerse<br>Sent: Friday, June 6, 2014 1:26 PM<br>To: Michael Peddemors;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Simple question to simplify the rhetoric..<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Of course those are not the only two options.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">We could choose C: Open up the market by removing needs testing along the lines of what RIPE is doing and let the market work that out.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">We could also D: Embrace and join the private market that has sprung up outside of ARIN and legitimize it and work closely with it at the policy level. (This has the added benefit of improving the accuracy of the Database.)<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">There are probably other options.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Steven Ryerse<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">President<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">770.656.1460 - Cell<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">770.399.9099- Office<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> Conquering Complex Networks℠<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</span></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</span></a>] On Behalf Of Michael Peddemors<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 11:33 AM<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">arin-ppml@arin.net</span></a><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Simple question to simplify the rhetoric..<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">On 14-06-06 08:21 AM, John Curran wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> On Jun 6, 2014, at 10:50 AM, Michael Peddemors <<a href="mailto:michael@linuxmagic.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">michael@linuxmagic.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">>> Why don't we first of all all express our simple votes..<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">>><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">>> A) Leave the current system alone, and let the free market work it<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">>> out<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">>> B) Enpower ARIN with more abilities to 'judge' who gets the remaining<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">>> space<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Michael -<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> In particular, there are the requirements for receiving space from the regional<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> free pool versus requirements for being a recipient of a market transfer.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Understood of course, however I believe a consensus or even a productive conversation in either case can't be had, unless the community first agrees in principle to a fundamental change in ARIN's role, where it is transfer's or allocation of new IP(s).<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">--<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">"Catch the Magic of Linux..."<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Michael Peddemors, President/CEO LinuxMagic Inc.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Visit us at<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.linuxmagic.com/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">http://www.linuxmagic.com</span></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>@linuxmagic<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">A Wizard IT Company - For More Info<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.wizard.ca/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">http://www.wizard.ca</span></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>"LinuxMagic" a Registered TradeMark of Wizard Tower TechnoServices Ltd.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">604-682-0300 Beautiful British Columbia, Canada<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">This email and any electronic data contained are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; 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