<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><br><br></div>These are not standards, it's policy. Policy should be concise and binary. ARIN already doesn't follow the policies and using words like "should" allow for more wink and nudge and less certainty and especially less consistency.<br>
<br></div><div>Best,<br><br></div><div>-M<<br><br><br></div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 7:26 AM, Kevin Kargel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kkargel@polartel.com" target="_blank">kkargel@polartel.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I will respectfully disagree. What is the point of “should”? Even in the example you gave it would better as “must unless” or “shall unless” instead of “should unless” . With “should” there is no reason for the unless because there is no requirement to do otherwise in the first place. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Should leaves a loophole that can be easily exploited, i.e. “you never said we had to do that, you just said we should, so I can technically do whatever I want”..<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">It would be perfectly functional to say:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">“</span>The allocation size shall be consistent with the existing ARIN minimum <br>
</p><div class=""> allocation sizes, unless small allocations are intended to be explicitly part <br></div> of the experiment.”<u></u><u></u><p></p><p class="MsoNormal">Using “should” in the statement makes it a no-op. With “should” you can choose not to follow what is only a suggestion. If you use “shall” or “must” you have enforceable policy. If the policy is not enforceable it is nothing more than a best practice statement at best.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Kevin<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>David Farmer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, May 31, 2014 4:56 PM</span></p><div class=""><br><b>To:</b> Leif Sawyer; Owen DeLong<br></div><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><div><div class="h5">
<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2014-12: Anti-hijack Policy<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p></div></div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">
After thinking about this for a while, the justification for a larger allocation is clearly intended to be a requirement, and not intended to be optional. So, "must" seems appropriate in the case. However, I can't agree with the comments that "should" and "may" are inappropriate in policy all together. A perfect example is the sentence just before the one we are discussing.<br>
<br> The allocation size should be consistent with the existing ARIN minimum <br> allocation sizes, unless small allocations are intended to be explicitly part <br> of the experiment.<br><br>Therefore, putting all the suggesting together, here is text for the Editorial Change I'm proposing at the PPC next week.<br>
<br> If an organization requires more <s><span style="color:blue">resource</span></s><span style="color:blue"> resources</span> than stipulated by the<span style="color:blue"> <br> applicable</span> minimum allocation <s><span style="color:blue">sizes</span></s><span style="color:blue"> size</span> in force at the time of their request,<br>
their <s><span style="color:blue">experimental documentation should have</span></s> <span style="color:blue">request must</span> clearly <s><span style="color:blue">described</span></s><span style="color:blue"><br> describe</span> and <s><span style="color:blue">justified</span></s><span style="color:blue"> justify</span> why <s><span style="color:blue">this</span></s><span style="color:blue"> a larger allocation</span> is required.<br>
<br>Thanks<br><br>On 5/21/14, 17:23 , Leif Sawyer wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><pre>I just can't think of a time when <u></u><u></u></pre><pre> "experimental documentation [should] clearly describe and justify"<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>"should" ever be "doesn't"<u></u><u></u></pre><pre><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre>hence my suggestion to use "must".<u></u><u></u></pre><pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre>-----Original Message-----<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>From: David Farmer [<a href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">mailto:farmer@umn.edu</a>] <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 12:04 PM<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>To: Leif Sawyer; Owen DeLong<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>Cc: David Farmer; <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2014-12: Anti-hijack Policy<u></u><u></u></pre><pre><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre>I think "should" is sufficiently strong, and gives ARIN Staff a little wiggle room to do what makes sense. There really have never been that many experimental allocations.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre>We had a big whoopsie with all 5 RIR's authorizing /12 anchor routes. <u></u><u></u></pre><pre>ARIN probably won't do that again anyway, but it's still worth a small fix in policy, just to be clear about it. The sentence is question is a little rough, so while we are at it a little editorial clean up is probably in order, but please let's not over do it.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre>I really would like to hear from a few more people about if this editorial change is a good idea or not, even a few +/-1s would be helpful.<u></u><u></u></pre><pre><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre>
Thanks.<u></u><u></u></pre><pre><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre>On 5/21/14, 13:52 , Leif Sawyer wrote:<u></u><u></u></pre><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><pre>s/should/must<u></u><u></u></pre><pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre>-----Original Message-----<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>From: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a> [<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank">mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>] <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>On Behalf Of Owen DeLong<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:34 AM<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>To: David Farmer<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>Cc: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2014-12: <u></u><u></u></pre><pre>Anti-hijack Policy<u></u><u></u></pre><pre><u></u> <u></u></pre><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><pre>
<u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre>In looking at the sentence in question; I think the "have" in the <u></u><u></u></pre><pre>sentence is extraneous, and can deleted. Then changing "this" to "a <u></u><u></u></pre><pre>larger allocation" and the tense changes you suggest, results in;<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre> If an organization requires more resource than stipulated by the<u></u><u></u></pre><pre> minimum allocation sizes in force at the time of their request,<u></u><u></u></pre><pre> their experimental documentation should clearly describe and<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre> justify why a larger allocation is required.<u></u><u></u></pre><pre><u></u> <u></u></pre></blockquote><pre><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre>s/resource/resources/<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>s/minimum allocation sizes/applicable minimum allocation size/ <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>s/experimental documentation/request/<u></u><u></u></pre><pre><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre>result:<u></u><u></u></pre><pre><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre>If an organization requires more resources than stipulated by the applicable minimum allocation in force at the time of their request, their request should clearly describe and justify why a larger allocation is required.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre>I think this not only parses better, but is more accurate.<u></u><u></u></pre><pre><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre>The first change resolves a grammar error.<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>The second change avoids ambiguity between whether all requests are subject to all minimums in this case vs. the intended meaning that the minimum applicable elsewhere in policy.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>The third change is because their documentation should be documentation of an experiment, not experimental documentation and what we really care about is the information provided in their ARIN request anyway.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre>I think since this is a minor change which does not alter the meaning of the policy and does improve readability and clarity, that we should probably go ahead and incorporate it as you proposed prior to last call.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre>Owen<u></u><u></u></pre><pre><u></u> <u></u></pre></blockquote></blockquote><pre>-- <u></u><u></u></pre><pre>================================================<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>David Farmer Email: <a href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">farmer@umn.edu</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Office of Information Technology<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>University of Minnesota <u></u><u></u></pre><pre>2218 University Ave SE Phone: 1-612-626-0815<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 1-612-812-9952<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>================================================ <u></u><u></u></pre></div></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
PPML<br>
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
<a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div>