<div dir="ltr">Hi Moran, <div><br></div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 6:23 AM, Jay Moran (AOL) <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jay-ARIN@tp.org" target="_blank">jay-ARIN@tp.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>Re-affirming my previous support for option #3 listed in 2014-2.<br>
<br></div>For 2014-9, I strongly support the removal of the utilization request during 8.2 transfers. Keeping accurate registry information is vital for all of us. Knowing internal corporate council as well as I do, they themselves can make an 8.2 internal transfer process quite painful for those of running the technologies of a company if they see anything that they interpret as risk to the continued operations of the business. To them an external party seeking information about internal operations (such as utilization levels of any resource relied on to do business) is a potential risk either on an immediate or future basis, whether there are direct actions such as reclamation currently allowed or not.<br>
<br></div><div>Section 6 of the RSA is certainly interpreted by myself and others as net new addresses being transferred (or allocated) into an organization and not for 8.2 transfers that should be to clean up registry information as corporate structure change. Just because an organization (let's say AOL for a random example) merged with Time Warner, Inc. (with 60% of the shares going to AOL shareholders, BTW) and then later the new entity spins the independent AOL subsidary back out as a standalone company, does not mean that the new standalone AOL entity is in anyway requesting additional addresses through transfer (or new allocation) when they simple try and update their records from their legacy name/entity to their new name/entity via a Name Change and/or then an 8.2 transfer.<br>
</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Can you specify which blocks do you refer to? Even i disagree with your opinions on supporting on 2014-02 and 2014-09, the community may help to solve your problems if you can specify the blocks you would like to have the name change. </div>
<div><br></div><div><p style="margin:0px;text-align:justify;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial"><span style="text-decoration:underline;letter-spacing:0px"><a href="http://172.210.0.0/16;172.211.0.0/16;62.51.0.0/17;62.78.0.0/19;64.12.0.0/16;64.236.0.0/16;66.185.128.0/19;149.174.0.0/16;152.163.0.0/16;172.128.0.0/10;172.128.0.0/16;172.129.0.0/16;172.130.0.0/16;172.131.0.0/16;172.132.0.0/16;172.133.0.0/16;172.134.0.0/16;172.135.0.0/16;172.136.0.0/16;172.137.0.0/16;172.138.0.0/16;172.139.0.0/16;172.140.0.0/16;172.158.0.0/16;172.160.0.0/16;172.161.0.0/16;172.162.0.0/16;172.163.0.0/16;172.164.0.0/16;172.165.0.0/16;172.166.0.0/16;172.167.0.0/16;172.168.0.0/16;172.169.0.0/16172.170.0.0/16;172.171.0.0/16;172.172.0.0/16;172.173.0.0/16;172.174.0.0/16;172.175.0.0/16;172.176.0.0/16;172.177.0.0/16;172.178.0.0/16;172.180.0.0/16">172.210.0.0/16;172.211.0.0/16;62.51.0.0/17;62.78.0.0/19;64.12.0.0/16;64.236.0.0/16;66.185.128.0/19;149.174.0.0/16;152.163.0.0/16;172.128.0.0/10;172.128.0.0/16;172.129.0.0/16;172.130.0.0/16;172.131.0.0/16;172.132.0.0/16;172.133.0.0/16;172.134.0.0/16;172.135.0.0/16;172.136.0.0/16;172.137.0.0/16;172.138.0.0/16;172.139.0.0/16;172.140.0.0/16;172.158.0.0/16;172.160.0.0/16;172.161.0.0/16;172.162.0.0/16;172.163.0.0/16;172.164.0.0/16;172.165.0.0/16;172.166.0.0/16;172.167.0.0/16;172.168.0.0/16;172.169.0.0/16172.170.0.0/16;172.171.0.0/16;172.172.0.0/16;172.173.0.0/16;172.174.0.0/16;172.175.0.0/16;172.176.0.0/16;172.177.0.0/16;172.178.0.0/16;172.180.0.0/16</a>;</span><span style="font-size:11px;font-family:Verdana;text-decoration:underline"><a href="http://172.192.0.0/13">172.192.0.0/13</a> </span></p>
</div><div><span style="font-size:11px;font-family:Verdana;text-decoration:underline"><br></span></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div></div><div>I understand some companies may use the process of spinning of an entity, bundling assets within that entity, and then selling it and requesting an 8.2 transfer; but it isn't like this is a new concept solely for the transfer of IP addresses. Whether it is for the other IP (Intellectual Property, patents, publishing rights, etc) or other assets (manufacturing plants, distribution networks, etc) this isn't exactly an uncommon occurrence in the world of corporate structure and finance.<br>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>
<br></div><div>If the ARIN community is still concerned that we need to place some limits on buying companies with nothing but IP addresses in them, then I would also support a re-definition of "Name Change" for organizations that makes it clear that a Name Change can be used if the vast majority of assets are transferred along with the actual merger, acquisition, or divestiture. Then using the same example of AOL & Time Warner, just because AOL didn't keep their private jets on the spin out, everything else transfers. It also didn't change what AOL was before, during, or after the years in the wilderness with Time Warner.<br>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I agree with you on this. However, what if a 8.2 transfer is planned purely for a 8.3/8.4 transfer later. It seems that such an arrangement is just like what you said here(buying IPs with no real assets acquired). Besides place some limits on buying companies with nothing, it should also place some limits on 8.2 transfer which the receiver does not plan to use them(buying IPs without real assets acquired or buying/Selling IPs has been disguised as a M/A). </div>
<div>The utilisation test required under 8.2 transfer may try to stop someone avoiding the 8.3/8.4 transfer and disguise a 8.3/8.4 transfer as a 8.2 transfer. Furthermore, why not directly do a 8.3/8.4 transfer instead of wasting time on argue this 2014-02 and 2014-09 if your purpose is try to do a 8.3/8.4 transfer. There is someone who might come across the same problems as you. maybe your guys should exchange your opinions here. </div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Jay</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div>
</div><div><br></div><div>These views are my own and I believe they benefit/apply to the entire community, but certainly my insights have been derived from my own personal experiences.<br></div><div><br></div>Jay Moran<br>
AOL Inc.<br clear="all"><div class="gmail_extra"><div>--<br>Jay Moran<br></div><div><a href="http://linkedin.com/in/jaycmoran" target="_blank">http://linkedin.com/in/jaycmoran</a><br></div><div><div class="h5">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 7:22 AM, Bill Darte <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:billdarte@gmail.com" target="_blank">billdarte@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Thank you for reiterating your opposition to 2014-2 Improving 8.4 Anti-Flip Language. I hope others opposed or in support of the Draft Policy will also post or better yet come to the ARIN 33 in Chicago this coming week. There we(AC) will present the draft and ask for guidance on whether to advance the Draft to Recommended Draft or to modify it accordance with suggestions received, or simply abandon it for lack of support.<div>
<br></div><div>I will say, it is not unreasonable for Draft Policy to emerge which seems to benefit and individual organization. It is the right of anyone in the community to try to shape policy that is favorable to their perceived needs. It is however the community's responsibility to review these drafts and to determine if they believe they are in the larger interest of the community and therefore worthy of advancing. Thanks to all that make this process work.</div>
<div><br></div><div>See you in Chicago!</div><div><br></div><div>Bill Darte</div><div>AC Shepherd 2014-2</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 9:03 PM, Jay Martin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jaymartin926@gmail.com" target="_blank">jaymartin926@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial">
Hi John and community, </p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial;min-height:16px"><br></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial">one of the reasons why the community should oppose the 2014-02 and 2014-09 as follows, The unfair system only benefits some big firms. </p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial;min-height:16px"><br></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial">Recently, there is one inter-rir transfer and i would like to discuss the story behind the scene.</p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial"><b>ipv4|<a href="http://167.220.224.0/19%7CAmerican" target="_blank">167.220.224.0/19|American</a> Registry for Internet Numbers/MOPL|AP|ARIN|20140109|Microsoft Singapore Pte. Ltd.|SG|APNIC|20140408</b></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial;min-height:16px"><br></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial">1. it’s original parent block is <a href="http://167.220.0.0/16" target="_blank">167.220.0.0/16</a> ( now has been split into smaller blocks) and has been announced by as3598 and as8071 but this one has been used in Singapore ( out of region use.) and its ARIN whois regi info shows country code:SG. I guess no wondering David is so caring about the Out of Region policy too. Even without this policy, Big firm can always do what they want to do. </p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial;min-height:16px"><br></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial;background-color:rgb(254,254,254)"><span style="background-color:transparent">2. Let’s talk about 2014-02 anti flip language, this inter-rir transferred /19 belongs to </span>MICROSOFT-GP-NET. I guess this account of miscrosoft has not received any ARIN IPv4 in the previous 12months. otherwise, ARIN will not approve this transfer. Hello community, please help to recheck to see if MICROSOFT-GP-NET has been allocated ARIN IPv4 within the past 12months. </p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial;background-color:rgb(254,254,254);min-height:16px"><br></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial"><span style="background-color:rgb(254,254,254)">Besides this account, Miscrosft has </span>MSFT which has just received <a href="http://23.96.0.0/13" target="_blank">23.96.0.0/13</a> from ARIN free pool and has MICROSOFT this maybe the one who buy large amount of IPs from the bankruptcy organisation. ( they also have other ARIN accounts and the above two works as the examples here) </p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial;min-height:16px"><br></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial">No wondering David so cares about 2014-02 and 2014-09 to get rid of policy restriction to have their IPs either in account MSFT and account MICROSOFT to be transferred into Microsoft Singapore Pte. Ltd. ( i guess its apnic account is miscrosoft-ap or something similar)</p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial;min-height:16px"><br></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial">The ARIN 33 is just at the corner, we should seriously discuss this 2014-2 and 2014-09 and I think the policy should not be established to favour someone specific, policy should favour the whole community and balance the benefits of all shareholders in ARIN region. </p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial;min-height:16px"><br></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial">Jay</p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial;min-height:16px"><br></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial;min-height:16px"><br></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial;min-height:16px"><br></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial;min-height:16px"><br></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial">Sample IPs belongs to MICROSOFT as follows,</p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial;min-height:14px"><br></p>
<table style="border-collapse:collapse" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(230,35,0)"><a href="http://137.116.0.0/16" target="_blank">137.116.0.0/16</a></p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;text-align:right;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(230,35,0);min-height:14px"><br></p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(230,35,0)">Microsoft Corp</p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:SimSun;color:rgb(230,35,0)">legacy</p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;text-align:right;font-size:12px;font-family:SimSun;color:rgb(230,35,0);min-height:14px"><br></p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;text-align:right;font-size:12px;font-family:SimSun;color:rgb(230,35,0);min-height:14px"><br></p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;text-align:right;font-size:12px;font-family:SimSun;color:rgb(230,35,0);min-height:14px"><br></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(230,35,0)"><a href="http://137.117.0.0/16" target="_blank">137.117.0.0/16</a></p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;text-align:right;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(230,35,0);min-height:14px"><br></p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(230,35,0)">Microsoft Corp</p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:SimSun;color:rgb(230,35,0)">legacy</p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;text-align:right;font-size:12px;font-family:SimSun;color:rgb(230,35,0);min-height:14px"><br></p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;text-align:right;font-size:12px;font-family:SimSun;color:rgb(230,35,0);min-height:14px"><br></p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;text-align:right;font-size:12px;font-family:SimSun;color:rgb(230,35,0);min-height:14px"><br></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(230,35,0)"><a href="http://137.135.0.0/16" target="_blank">137.135.0.0/16</a></p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;text-align:right;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(230,35,0);min-height:14px"><br></p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(230,35,0)">Microsoft Corp</p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:SimSun;color:rgb(230,35,0)">legacy</p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;text-align:right;font-size:12px;font-family:SimSun;color:rgb(230,35,0);min-height:14px"><br></p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;text-align:right;font-size:12px;font-family:SimSun;color:rgb(230,35,0);min-height:14px"><br></p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;text-align:right;font-size:12px;font-family:SimSun;color:rgb(230,35,0);min-height:14px"><br></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(230,35,0)"><a href="http://138.91.0.0/16" target="_blank">138.91.0.0/16</a></p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;text-align:right;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(230,35,0);min-height:14px"><br></p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(230,35,0)">Microsoft Corp</p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:SimSun;color:rgb(230,35,0)">legacy</p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;text-align:right;font-size:12px;font-family:SimSun;color:rgb(230,35,0);min-height:14px"><br></p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;text-align:right;font-size:12px;font-family:SimSun;color:rgb(230,35,0);min-height:14px"><br></p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;text-align:right;font-size:12px;font-family:SimSun;color:rgb(230,35,0);min-height:14px"><br></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(230,35,0)"><a href="http://141.251.0.0/16" target="_blank">141.251.0.0/16</a></p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;text-align:right;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(230,35,0);min-height:14px"><br></p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(230,35,0)">Microsoft Corp</p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:SimSun;color:rgb(230,35,0)">legacy</p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;text-align:right;font-size:12px;font-family:SimSun;color:rgb(230,35,0);min-height:14px"><br></p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;text-align:right;font-size:12px;font-family:SimSun;color:rgb(230,35,0);min-height:14px"><br></p>
</td>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
<p style="margin:0px;text-align:right;font-size:12px;font-family:SimSun;color:rgb(230,35,0);min-height:14px"><br></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table style="border-collapse:collapse" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border:1px solid rgb(203,203,203);padding:0px 5px" valign="middle">
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</tbody>
</table>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Helvetica;min-height:14px"><br></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Helvetica;min-height:14px"><br></p><p style="margin:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Helvetica;min-height:14px"><br></p><p style="margin:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Helvetica;min-height:14px">
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<br></p><p style="margin:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Helvetica;min-height:14px"><br></p></div>
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PPML<br>
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