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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Agreed. ARIN should be a registry and as such absolutely should be non-competitive and blind to the market. The registry should not be configured to support the market. IMHO ARIN should not be participating in or catering to the market in any form.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Kevin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> David Huberman [mailto:David.Huberman@microsoft.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 04, 2014 9:31 AM<br><b>To:</b> Kevin Kargel; arin-ppml@arin.net<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 106, Issue 8<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>ARIN is a registry, not a regulator. The more you guys want to <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>build in rules that are anti-competitive and blind to the market<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>reality, the more inaccurate Whois gets.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Upon v4 exhaustion, we should remove needs basis from <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>transfers, remove the RSA text that makes the signer disclaim <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>property rights, and motivate registrants to keep Whois accurate<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>so that network operators can get good information about their<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>traffic.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div name=divtagdefaultwrapper><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>David R Huberman</span></b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Microsoft Corporation</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Senior IT/OPS Program Manager (GFS)</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#282828'><hr size=2 width="98%" align=center></span></div><div id=divRplyFwdMsg><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a> <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>> on behalf of Kevin Kargel <<a href="mailto:kkargel@polartel.com">kkargel@polartel.com</a>><br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 4, 2014 6:56 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 106, Issue 8</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I guess I am confused. I thought that resources assigned to entities that no longer exist should be reclaimed to the pool. </span><span style='color:#282828'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Kevin</span><span style='color:#282828'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:#282828'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:#282828'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor blue'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:currentColor currentColor'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#282828'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#282828'> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a> [<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Scott Leibrand<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 03, 2014 8:25 PM<br><b>To:</b> Rocky<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 106, Issue 8</span><span style='color:#282828'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Rocky,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Many such 8.2 transfers are efforts to get ARIN's records up to date regarding M&A transactions that happened years ago. It is not possible for a no-longer-existent entity to execute the 8.3 transfer, so it has to be 8.2 transferred to the new entity first. <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Scott<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#282828'><br>On Apr 3, 2014, at 6:02 PM, Rocky <<a href="mailto:rockymm8@gmail.com">rockymm8@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#282828'>Hello there,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white;min-height: 14px'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#282828'>What you are planning to do seems like you try to disguise an 8.3 transfer as an 8.2 transfer. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#282828'>I do not think it is appropriate for allowing an 8.2 transfer followed by an 8.3/8.4 transfer. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white;min-height: 14px'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#282828'>If the company does not need the IPv4 and the IPv4 are lack of utilisation, why not ask this company to return the IPv4 for the benefit of the community?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white;min-height: 14px'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#282828'>If the company wants to sell the IPv4 after an 8.2 to buyers through an 8.3/8.4, why not the company directly transfer the IPv4 from its original organisation instead of doing an 8.2 first then followed by an 8.3/8.4 transfer. Are the seller trying to hide something or as the seller is afraid of doing something against the policy, so they try to make such an arrangement?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white;min-height: 14px'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#282828'>There is a highly suspicious of “ IPv4 laundry” or “IPv4 speculation” about this company. Maybe we need more transparency of the buy&sale of the IPv4 to make sure the behaviour of the seller is compatible with policy. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white;min-height: 14px'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#282828'>I suggest to resolve the language conflict between 8.2 transfer policy and RSA and further to suggest to figure out some measures to stop the speculation on IPv4 via an 8.2 then followed by an 8.3/8.4 transfer. If the company does not use the IPv4 after an 8.2 transfer, why not return them to free pool for the benefit of the whole community?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white;min-height: 14px'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#282828'>Any ideas on this ?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#A0A0A8'>On Friday, April 4, 2014 at 7:43 AM, <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a> wrote:</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#282828'><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 8.0pt;margin-left:0in;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor windowtext'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'><a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>You can reach the person managing the list at<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'><a href="mailto:arin-ppml-owner@arin.net">arin-ppml-owner@arin.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Today's Topics:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>1. Re: ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 106, Issue 7 (Chris R. Squatritto)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>2. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2014-9: Resolve Conflict Between RSA<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>and 8.2 Utilization Requirements (John Curran)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>3. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2014-9: Resolve Conflict Between RSA<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>and 8.2 Utilization Requirements (Milton L Mueller)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>4. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2014-9: Resolve Conflict Between RSA<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>and 8.2 Utilization Requirements (xiaofan yang)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>5. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2014-9: Resolve Conflict Between RSA<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>and 8.2 Utilization Requirements (xiaofan yang)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>----------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Message: 1<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 16:30:45 -0700<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>From: "Chris R. Squatritto" <<a href="mailto:csquat@ccsd.net">csquat@ccsd.net</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>To: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 106, Issue 7<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Message-ID:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'><<a href="mailto:fc.004c4e074f3bba733b9aca00e3f873db.4f3bba74@interact.ccsd.net">fc.004c4e074f3bba733b9aca00e3f873db.4f3bba74@interact.ccsd.net</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>I am out of the office this week and will not be checking email. Please<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>contact Troy Miller for assistance..<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Thank you for contacting me, and have a great day.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>-------------- next part --------------<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>URL: <<a href="http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20140402/5723c721/attachment-0001.html">http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20140402/5723c721/attachment-0001.html</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Message: 2<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 23:59:20 +0000<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>From: John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net">jcurran@arin.net</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>To: xiaofan yang <<a href="mailto:nikiyangxf@gmail.com">nikiyangxf@gmail.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2014-9: Resolve Conflict<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Between RSA and 8.2 Utilization Requirements<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:6BBC9339-AE30-446A-8406-8237A8C3477F@arin.net">6BBC9339-AE30-446A-8406-8237A8C3477F@arin.net</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>On Apr 2, 2014, at 4:27 PM, xiaofan yang <<a href="mailto:nikiyangxf@gmail.com">nikiyangxf@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Hi John, <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>I have further enquiry about ARIN 8.2 process. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Number one:I am also worried about the costs of doing a 8.2 transfer followed by a 8.3 transfer. I wonder if I will have to involve the legal help to deal with ARIN legal. In my case I bought a company that now is out of business. How complicated does ARIN make this process? I want some assurance that I will be treated equally to any other companies whether it is a big company or a small company like us.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Niki -<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>You will be treated equally, but in truth I'm not certain that is actually what you want...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>(for example, a process which seems routine for a large organization could still pose <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>a disproportionate burden to a smaller organization since organization size is not a<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>factor in the verification process.)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>The first and foremost activity is to make sure that we have your organization registered<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>as the rightful address holder, and that will require an NRPM 8.2 transfer. It can actually<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>be relatively straightforward process, as long as you have clear documentation of the <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>purchase of the company. Review the instructions here for additional information about<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>what is accepted - <<a href="https://www.arin.net/resources/request/transfers_8_2.html">https://www.arin.net/resources/request/transfers_8_2.html</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Number two: If we do a 8.2 transfer followed by a 8.3 transfer, will the stated purpose for our number resources remains the same?? I am afraid of that ARIN will not approve our transfer. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>If you are the clear party with the rights after your purchase, ARIN will approve your<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>transfer. We may note that you have more addresses than you now need, and thus<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>we expect you to return or transfer the remainder (but that would seem to line up with<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>your intentions in any case.)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>If you have purchased a company without adequate documentation, or if multiple<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>parties purchased multiple pieces of the company, or if there some question about<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>what was purchased based on the documentation, then it can be more challenging <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>to get the resources appropriately listed with you as the rightful holder. You will need<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>to apply for the transfer and work with the ARIN Hostmaster to determine if there is<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>any issue in your particular case.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Number three: As we have bought the company, do we have the property right on those IPs? in our past agreement and future agreement arranged for 8.3, we would like to have some kinds of property right on those IPs, will that conflict with ARIN policy?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Wonderful question - it is ARIN's position that you have a specific set of rights to the <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>address blocks in the registry (as defined by the registration services agreement that<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>you enter with ARIN), and these rights include:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>(1) The exclusive right to be the registrant of the Included Number Resources within the ARIN database; <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>(2) The right to use the Included Number Resources within the ARIN database; and<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>(3) The right to transfer the registration of the Included Number Resources pursuant to the Policies.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>ARIN registration services agreement includes a specific disclaimer of property rights<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>in the address blocks, as it is inconsistent with the ability to manage the address blocks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>in accordance with community-developed policy in the region. If you have other beliefs<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>with respect to your rights, that would probably be an area for you to seek legal advice.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>I hope this helps; please do not hesitate to ask if you have any additional questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>/John<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>John Curran<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>President and CEO<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>ARIN<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Message: 3<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2014 15:33:13 +0000<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>From: Milton L Mueller <<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu">mueller@syr.edu</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>To: "'John Curran'" <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net">jcurran@arin.net</a>>, xiaofan yang<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'><<a href="mailto:nikiyangxf@gmail.com">nikiyangxf@gmail.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2014-9: Resolve Conflict<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Between RSA and 8.2 Utilization Requirements<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:1846d87fe7164f22a7c63e9d1fed321e@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu">1846d87fe7164f22a7c63e9d1fed321e@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Niki:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>For most economists and lawyers, the definition of a "property right" involves the right to use, the right to exclude others from using, and the right to transfer. As John's message makes clear, all those rights are present in the number block lease you get from ARIN. So although the RSA makes you formally declaim a property right, what you are getting from the RSA is a bundle of rights that for all practical purposes has the same economic features as a property right. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Wonderful question - it is ARIN's position that you have a specific set of rights to the address blocks in the registry (as defined by the registration services agreement that you enter with ARIN), and these rights include:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>(1) The exclusive right to be the registrant of the Included Number Resources within the ARIN database; <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>(2) The right to use the Included Number Resources within the ARIN database; and<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>(3) The right to transfer the registration of the Included Number Resources pursuant to the Policies.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>ARIN registration services agreement includes a specific disclaimer of property rights in the address blocks, as it is inconsistent with the ability to manage the address blocks in accordance with community-developed policy in the region. If you have other beliefs with respect to your rights, that would probably be an area for you to seek legal advice.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>I hope this helps; please do not hesitate to ask if you have any additional questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>/John<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>John Curran<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>President and CEO<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>ARIN<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>PPML<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Message: 4<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 07:33:04 +0800<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>From: xiaofan yang <<a href="mailto:nikiyangxf@gmail.com">nikiyangxf@gmail.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>To: John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net">jcurran@arin.net</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2014-9: Resolve Conflict<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Between RSA and 8.2 Utilization Requirements<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Message-ID:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'><<a href="mailto:CAPhL6MpzKW1q2Cw9+SfZ+hap6ecwns6JzdBEp+xvK8dF7VMwxg@mail.gmail.com">CAPhL6MpzKW1q2Cw9+SfZ+hap6ecwns6JzdBEp+xvK8dF7VMwxg@mail.gmail.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>In basis of your reply, if the block is underutilised,ARIN will either ask<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>the company to return the IPs or transfer to other third party via 8.3<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>transfer after our 8.2 transfer.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Say we have two /16 after this 8.2 transfer, what if we only transfer one<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>/16 to the other third party via 8.3 transfer, meanwhile, we keep the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>other /16 left unused after our 8.2 transfer for quiet a while. Will ARIN<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>ask us to return the remained /16 to the free pool? furthmore, how long<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>will ARIN allow us to keep the other /16 unused before we transfer it to<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>the third party via 8.3 transfer ?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Niki<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 7:59 AM, John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net">jcurran@arin.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>On Apr 2, 2014, at 4:27 PM, xiaofan yang <<a href="mailto:nikiyangxf@gmail.com">nikiyangxf@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>I have further enquiry about ARIN 8.2 process.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Number one:I am also worried about the costs of doing a 8.2 transfer<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>followed by a 8.3 transfer. I wonder if I will have to involve the legal<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>help to deal with ARIN legal. In my case I bought a company that now is<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>out of business. How complicated does ARIN make this process? I want some<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>assurance that I will be treated equally to any other companies whether it<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>is a big company or a small company like us.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Niki -<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>You will be treated equally, but in truth I'm not certain that is actually<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>what you want...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>(for example, a process which seems routine for a large organization could<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>still pose<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>a disproportionate burden to a smaller organization since organization<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>size is not a<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>factor in the verification process.)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>The first and foremost activity is to make sure that we have your<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>organization registered<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>as the rightful address holder, and that will require an NRPM 8.2<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>transfer. It can actually<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>be relatively straightforward process, as long as you have clear<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>documentation of the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>purchase of the company. Review the instructions here for additional<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>information about<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>what is accepted - <<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'><a href="https://www.arin.net/resources/request/transfers_8_2.html">https://www.arin.net/resources/request/transfers_8_2.html</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Number two: If we do a 8.2 transfer followed by a 8.3 transfer, will<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>the stated purpose for our number resources remains the same?? I am afraid<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>of that ARIN will not approve our transfer.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>If you are the clear party with the rights after your purchase, ARIN will<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>approve your<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>transfer. We may note that you have more addresses than you now need, and<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>thus<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>we expect you to return or transfer the remainder (but that would seem to<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>line up with<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>your intentions in any case.)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>If you have purchased a company without adequate documentation, or if<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>multiple<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>parties purchased multiple pieces of the company, or if there some<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>question about<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>what was purchased based on the documentation, then it can be more<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>challenging<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>to get the resources appropriately listed with you as the rightful holder.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>You will need<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>to apply for the transfer and work with the ARIN Hostmaster to determine<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>if there is<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>any issue in your particular case.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Number three: As we have bought the company, do we have the property<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>right on those IPs? in our past agreement and future agreement arranged<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>for 8.3, we would like to have some kinds of property right on those IPs,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>will that conflict with ARIN policy?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Wonderful question - it is ARIN's position that you have a specific set of<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>rights to the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>address blocks in the registry (as defined by the registration services<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>agreement that<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>you enter with ARIN), and these rights include:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>(1) The exclusive right to be the registrant of the Included Number<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Resources within the ARIN database;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>(2) The right to use the Included Number Resources within the ARIN<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>database; and<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>(3) The right to transfer the registration of the Included Number<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Resources pursuant to the Policies.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>ARIN registration services agreement includes a specific disclaimer of<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>property rights<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>in the address blocks, as it is inconsistent with the ability to manage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>the address blocks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>in accordance with community-developed policy in the region. If you have<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>other beliefs<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>with respect to your rights, that would probably be an area for you to<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>seek legal advice.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>I hope this helps; please do not hesitate to ask if you have any<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>additional questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>/John<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>John Curran<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>President and CEO<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>ARIN<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>-------------- next part --------------<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>URL: <<a href="http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20140404/fd4aa749/attachment-0001.html">http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20140404/fd4aa749/attachment-0001.html</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Message: 5<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 07:43:43 +0800<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>From: xiaofan yang <<a href="mailto:nikiyangxf@gmail.com">nikiyangxf@gmail.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>To: Milton L Mueller <<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu">mueller@syr.edu</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Cc: John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net">jcurran@arin.net</a>>, "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'><<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2014-9: Resolve Conflict<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Between RSA and 8.2 Utilization Requirements<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Message-ID:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'><CAPhL6MrQdn-=<a href="mailto:5g8ZKSntVpVca7pRrwuWLxCAiTrgv2d672wX3A@mail.gmail.com">5g8ZKSntVpVca7pRrwuWLxCAiTrgv2d672wX3A@mail.gmail.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Hi Milton,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>thanks for your inspiring reply. Now i know that we have the "ownership"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>of those IPs. as you are one of the AC, i take your reply seriously and<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>also this is good news for the community, especially for those legacy<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>holders, if the holder of ARIN non-legacy IPs can have the "ownership'<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>then the holder of legacy IPs definitely has the ownership on their IPs<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>no matter whether they sign the RSA , LRSA or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Hope ARIN will not impose unpredictable "restrictions" when legacy or<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>non-legacy holder begins its transfer request. Moreover, when ARIN reject<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>a transfer , hope ARIN will not use the "confidential terms" as an excuse<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>for not reply communities' questions in ppml. or ARIN will reply with<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>bunch of info mean nothing.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Niki<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Milton L Mueller <<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu">mueller@syr.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Niki:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>For most economists and lawyers, the definition of a "property right"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>involves the right to use, the right to exclude others from using, and the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>right to transfer. As John's message makes clear, all those rights are<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>present in the number block lease you get from ARIN. So although the RSA<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>makes you formally declaim a property right, what you are getting from the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>RSA is a bundle of rights that for all practical purposes has the same<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>economic features as a property right.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Wonderful question - it is ARIN's position that you have a specific set of<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>rights to the address blocks in the registry (as defined by the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>registration services agreement that you enter with ARIN), and these rights<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>include:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>(1) The exclusive right to be the registrant of the Included Number<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Resources within the ARIN database;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>(2) The right to use the Included Number Resources within the ARIN<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>database; and<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>(3) The right to transfer the registration of the Included Number<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Resources pursuant to the Policies.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>ARIN registration services agreement includes a specific disclaimer of<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>property rights in the address blocks, as it is inconsistent with the<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>ability to manage the address blocks in accordance with community-developed<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>policy in the region. If you have other beliefs with respect to your<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>rights, that would probably be an area for you to seek legal advice.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>I hope this helps; please do not hesitate to ask if you have any<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>additional questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>/John<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>John Curran<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>President and CEO<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>ARIN<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>PPML<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>-------------- next part --------------<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>URL: <<a href="http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20140404/57c3a01e/attachment.html">http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20140404/57c3a01e/attachment.html</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>ARIN-PPML mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'><a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 106, Issue 8<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>*****************************************<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#282828'>_______________________________________________<br>PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>