<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Jason,<br></div>I agree with you....that seems to be my biggest objection.<br></div>bd<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Jason Schiller <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com" target="_blank">jschiller@google.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I think the easy fix here is remove the requirement to already be using a /20, and instead have them provide strong justification about how the addresses will be used in the next 90 days for ISPs, in the next year for end sites, and in the next two years for transfers.<div>
<br></div><div>I'm thinking something like immediate need, where they have some real data to show how the addresses will be used, but not necessarily in the next 30 days. </div><div><br></div><div>Possibly VC commitment to spend on purchasing 3,000 servers (each booking 1 IP) or 3,000 residential customer pre-orders, or 1,500 residential customer pre-orders, and a business plan to use revenue booked to deploy a second equally sized market in the time.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Basically if you have the IP justification to get a /20 from your ISP, then submit that to ARIN and get a /21 slow start. Use it and come back. </div><div><br></div><div>___Jason<br><br></div></div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Randy Carpenter <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rcarpen@network1.net" target="_blank">rcarpen@network1.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I have several single-homed clients who are in the position of having a /23 or /22 from an upstream, and needing additional space. They are refused.<br>
<br>
They have a justified need, and are established networks, but ARIN policy prevents them from getting their own space because they don't already have a /20. At this point in the game the requirement of having space before you can get space seems a little ridiculous, particularly at the current minimums. If they were able to get their own space, they could hand back most or all of the upstream space, thus providing a benefit to them as well.<br>
<br>
I am very in favor of moving the minimums to /22 for single-homed at least. I would also be in favor of only requiring an upstream allocation of a /24, so long as the ISP can show justified need for a full /22.<br>
<br>
For multi-homed, I would be fine with either /23 or /24.<br>
<br>
<br>
thanks,<br>
-Randy<br>
<div><div><br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
> David,<br>
><br>
> There are going to be lots of reasons why an ISP can't provide space to a<br>
> downstream post run out, even when on paper they have space.<br>
><br>
> 1) Space dedicated to another region<br>
> 2) Cost Prohibitive for downstream due to cost recovery.<br>
> 3) Forward looking project that fits within the 24 month window.<br>
><br>
> I can see the conversation now.<br>
><br>
> Downstream: I need a /24 of IP space<br>
> Upstream: NO<br>
> Downstream: Ok, I'm telling on you.<br>
> Upstream: We didn't sign the contract, find someone else to provide service.<br>
><br>
> In a primary market there are going to be "others". In a secondary market you<br>
> will be out of luck.<br>
><br>
> We can't wrap this policy in a complicated beat stick. If a company has a<br>
> need for an initial allocation<br>
> They are going to have to go to the transfer market. We should be able to<br>
> give them the initial allocation without adding complexity.<br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
><br>
> Kevin<br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>] On<br>
> Behalf Of David Farmer<br>
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 2:26 PM<br>
> To: Brandon Ross; Jo Rhett<br>
> Cc: ARIN-PPML List<br>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Bootstrapping new entrants after IPv4 exhaustion<br>
><br>
> On 11/22/13, 08:50 , Brandon Ross wrote:<br>
> > On Thu, 21 Nov 2013, Jo Rhett wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> >> I'd like to see some actual documented issues with this. Almost<br>
> >> everyone I know is sitting on large amounts of smaller blocks they<br>
> >> can easily allocate to people. It's the larger (/21 or greater)<br>
> >> blocks which are becoming scarce.<br>
> ><br>
> > What kind of documentation are you looking for?<br>
><br>
> I would think an a copy of an email or a letter from the upstream which<br>
> confirms the upstream can't/won't provide them address space, for some<br>
> reason other than they don't think the customer justifies additional address<br>
> space.<br>
><br>
> It is unfair for ARIN to withhold address space because the upstream has<br>
> address space but won't provide it to the requester for what ever reason. I<br>
> think it is reasonable to require some confirming documentation that the<br>
> upstream is not providing address space. You can't just "say" your ISP is<br>
> not providing it.<br>
><br>
> However, if an ISP is saying you don't justify additional address space, then<br>
> you shouldn't qualify for address space from ARIN under an exception like<br>
> this.<br>
><br>
> Also, ARIN should be able to refuse if they feel there is collusion between<br>
> an ISP and a requester.<br>
><br>
> Thanks.<br>
> --<br>
> ================================================<br>
> David Farmer Email: <a href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">farmer@umn.edu</a><br>
> Office of Information Technology<br>
> University of Minnesota<br>
> 2218 University Ave SE Phone: <a href="tel:1-612-626-0815" value="+16126260815" target="_blank">1-612-626-0815</a><br>
> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: <a href="tel:1-612-812-9952" value="+16128129952" target="_blank">1-612-812-9952</a><br>
> ================================================<br>
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</font><div><font face="'courier new', monospace">Jason Schiller|NetOps|<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com" target="_blank">jschiller@google.com</a>|<a href="tel:571-266-0006" value="+15712660006" target="_blank">571-266-0006</a></font></div>
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