<div dir="ltr">I know this thread is dead, but I just wanted to clarify something <div>that may be confusing for other following with no judgement.<div><br></div><div style>What Mike Burns was talking about is two differ legal agreements:</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>1. Some times two organizations enter into an agreement that </div><div style>results in IP addresses being transferred from one org to another.</div><div style><br></div><div style>This is supported in policy, currently requires needs based </div>
<div style>justification, and the whois database records such a transfer.</div><div style><br></div><div style>2. Some times two organizations enter into an agreement that </div><div>results in and understanding that the current holder of the </div>
<div>address space will provide a Letter of Authorization (LOA) </div><div>exclusive to them to aid in getting a route routed by their ISP.</div><div style><br></div><div style>This does not require any needs based justification (so long </div>
<div style>as the current holder of the address space does not desire</div><div style>additional addresses from ARIN, or ARIN does not find their</div><div style>usage of [non-legacy] ARIN space to be out of complaisance.)</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>This does not cause an update to the whois database.</div><div style><br></div><div style>The whois database accurately reflects who is the holder of</div><div style>the address space.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>The whois database does not accurately reflect who is using the</div><div style>address space. </div><div style><br></div><div style>This means the current user of the address space will have to </div>
<div style>dependent on the current holder of the addresses to provide</div><div style>support such as passing along email and phone calls wrt routing </div><div style>issues.</div><div><br></div></div><div><br></div><div style>
__Jason</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 2:30 PM, Mike Burns <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mike@nationwideinc.com" target="_blank">mike@nationwideinc.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Calibri'">
<div>lol. An Amen and two shut-ups!</div>
<div>OK, I’ll shut up.</div>
<div> </div>
<div style="font-size:small;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Calibri';display:inline;font-weight:normal">
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma">
<div> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="chris@datacate.net" href="mailto:chris@datacate.net" target="_blank">Chris James</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 19, 2013 2:19 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="john.sweeting@twcable.com" href="mailto:john.sweeting@twcable.com" target="_blank">Sweeting, John</a> </div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a title="jcurran@arin.net" href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">John
Curran</a> ; <a title="mike@nationwideinc.com" href="mailto:mike@nationwideinc.com" target="_blank">Mike Burns</a> ; <a title="arin-ppml@arin.net" href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>
</div><div><div class="h5">
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] A Redefinition
ofIPv4NeedpostARINrun-out(was:Re:Against2013-4)</div></div></div></div></div>
<div> </div></div><div><div class="h5">
<div style="font-size:small;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Calibri';display:inline;font-weight:normal">
<div dir="ltr">Agreed.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div> </div>
<div>Chris James
<div>Datacate Inc.</div>
<div>2999 Gold Canal Dr.</div>
<div>Rancho Cordova, CA 95670</div>
<div>916-526-0737 o.</div>
<div>916-668-5851 d.</div>
<div> </div></div><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Sweeting, John <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:john.sweeting@twcable.com" target="_blank">john.sweeting@twcable.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY:calibri,sans-serif;WORD-WRAP:break-word;FONT-SIZE:14px">
<div>Hi,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>If possible could we move this to a private conversation? This has all
been aired on PPML several times before and at this point it serves no
purpose. If we could please get back on track and focus on a current draft
policy or proposal and state reasons for support or non support it would be
very much appreciated. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>John</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div><span>
<div style="BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;TEXT-ALIGN:left;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;FONT-FAMILY:calibri;FONT-SIZE:11pt;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">From: </span>John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">jcurran@arin.net</a>><br><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, June 19, 2013 2:12
PM<br><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">To: </span>Mike Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@nationwideinc.com" target="_blank">mike@nationwideinc.com</a>><br><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Cc: </span>"<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>>, Mike Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com" target="_blank">mike@iptrading.com</a>><br>
<span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [arin-ppml] A Redefinition
ofIPv4NeedpostARINrun-out(was:Re:Against2013-4)<br></div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word">
<div>
<div>On Jun 19, 2013, at 12:42 PM, Mike Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@nationwideinc.com" target="_blank">mike@nationwideinc.com</a>> wrote:</div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word" dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY:calibri;FONT-SIZE:12pt">
<div>
<div>
<div></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div> You may say "legally purchasing" rights, but I truly
don't know what these parties think </div>
<div> they purchased, since it can't be the ability to inject
routes and have them accepted </div>
<div> (no one can provide that) nor the right to use the entry
in the registry, when the </div>
<div> circumstances are contrary to policy.</div></blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div>I guess they figure they are buying what the Nortel bankruptcy judge
called the “exclusive right to use” the
addresses.</div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div>Indeed, but those are rights which may be transferred in accordance with
policy. In the case</div>
<div>of Nortel, this was accomplished by ARIN working with Microsoft and
confirming compliance</div>
<div>and then removing our objection, a point which Nortel's own filing makes
- "10. Second, the </div>
<div>revisions reflected in the Amended Sale Agreement and Revised Order were
the result of </div>
<div>negotiations between Microsoft, ARIN and NNI and, accordingly, ARIN’s
counsel has </div>
<div>informed NNI that it does not oppose entry of the Revised Order. "
<NNI Docket #5280></div>
<div> </div>
<div>No problem buying the rights (that is, after all, what a transfer is) but
you also have to wait</div>
<div>for the approval before considering the deal "closed", just as in the
Nortel case.</div>
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word" dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY:calibri;FONT-SIZE:12pt">
<div>
<div><span style="FONT-SIZE:12pt"></span> </div></div></div></div></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word" dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY:calibri;FONT-SIZE:12pt">
<div>Consider if the buyer of the radio station could begin and continue
broadcasting without regard to regulatory approval?</div>
<div>Does that make a listener un-hear a broadcast? Or would the incentives
lead to lots of wildcat radio stations pending
approval?</div></div></div></div></blockquote><br></div>
<div>The safest move is to finalize the sale upon the approval; claiming that
it is complete prior</div>
<div>to that point is rather innovative (and might even be considered fraud if
done knowingly...)</div>
<div> </div>
<div>FYI,</div>
<div>/John</div>
<div> </div>
<div>John Curran</div>
<div>President and CEO</div>
<div>ARIN</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div></div></div></span><br>
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