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<div>I should also clarify that I support what Scott has started below and think the two efforts would take a separate path. Scott's clarification effort is a near term fix. If the community thinks what I am discussing is worthwhile it would be a longer term
effort and spun off in a separate thread. -Dan</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Microsoft Office User <<a href="mailto:daniel_alexander@cable.comcast.com">daniel_alexander@cable.comcast.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tue, 30 Apr 2013 19:54:06 +0000<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>>, ARIN-PPML List <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [arin-ppml] Clean up definition of LIR/ISP vs. end-user<br>
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<div>I suggest it is a worthwhile conversation to explore why they will be necessary?</div>
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<div>If the Internet is a network of networks, why does ARIN, an RIR, need to make the distinctions in how it allocates or assigns resources? Why shouldn't ARIN simply allocate resources to networks, regardless of how they operate simply based on what they
need? </div>
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<div>Are we over complicating things, not only for the Registry, but for those who don't do this for a living who are struggling to understand what all this means and why? </div>
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<div>This goes back to the original PI/PA debate. There are End User networks that dwarf many ISP/LIR networks and vise versa. Why should we maintain multiple layers of requirements to justify IPv4 transfers and an exceedingly large pool of IPv6 space?</div>
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<div>-Dan</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tue, 30 Apr 2013 11:36:30 -0700<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Microsoft Office User <<a href="mailto:daniel_alexander@cable.comcast.com">daniel_alexander@cable.comcast.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>ARIN-PPML List <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [arin-ppml] Clean up definition of LIR/ISP vs. end-user<br>
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Dan,
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<div>The definitions apply to IPv6 as well.</div>
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<div>I believe they are still necessary.</div>
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<div>Owen</div>
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<div>On Apr 29, 2013, at 20:37 , "Alexander, Daniel" <<a href="mailto:Daniel_Alexander@Cable.Comcast.com">Daniel_Alexander@Cable.Comcast.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div>Hello All,</div>
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<div>I would be curious to hear people's opinions of whether the distinctions are still necessary within ARIN policy. Once the IPv4 free pool is depleted, and the policies become focused on processing transfers, do we need to distinguish between End Users,
non-End Users, and PA vs PI within ARIN policy?</div>
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<div>What are the criteria in which these distinctions matter, and will they still apply next year?</div>
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<div>Dan </div>
<div>ARIN AC</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Scott Leibrand <<a href="mailto:scottleibrand@gmail.com">scottleibrand@gmail.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Mon, 29 Apr 2013 13:41:56 -0700<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>ARIN-PPML List <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>[arin-ppml] Clean up definition of LIR/ISP vs. end-user<br>
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<div dir="ltr">At ARIN 31 last week, Leslie's Policy Experience Report (slides at
<a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/reports/ARIN_31/PDF/monday/nobile_policy.pdf">
https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/reports/ARIN_31/PDF/monday/nobile_policy.pdf</a> or
<a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/reports/ARIN_31/PPT/monday/nobile_policy.pptx">
https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/reports/ARIN_31/PPT/monday/nobile_policy.pptx</a>) reported that, in ARIN staff's experience, the NRPM does not adequately define ISP/LIR vs. end-user. For example, by literally applying the existing definitions as
currently written, my employer would be neither an ISP nor and end-user, because while they do not *primarily* assign address space to users, neither do they *exclusively* use it in their own networks. So I think those definitions need a few tweaks.
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<div style="">I would propose that the primary difference between ISPs/LIRs vs. end-users, for purposes of the NRPM, is whether an organization reassigns address blocks to third parties. If an organization maintains full control of all of the equipment on
its network, and doesn't need to make any reassignments to other organizations, then it can qualify as an end-user. In particular, an end user organization must be able to supply a full list of all the IP addresses in use on its network, and know what devices
are using those addresses.</div>
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<div style="">An ISP/LIR, on the other hand, should be defined by whether they delegate that responsibility to another organization. In that case, they need to reassign the network space via SWIP/rwhois, which makes them an LIR.</div>
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<div style="">I understand that there are other considerations, such as the expectation in the security community that addresses within an ISP allocation are generally controlled by third parties, whereas addresses in an end-user assignment are generally controlled
by the end-user organization. However, I don't believe it's practical to try to draw a distinction there: rather, organizations can decide for themselves whether they need to make reassignments (for that or several other reasons), and that decision can drive
whether they are considered an ISP/LIR or end-user for purposes of ARIN policy.</div>
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<div style="">In light of the above, I would propose the following revised definitions:</div>
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<div style="">
<div>2.4. Local Internet Registry (LIR)</div>
<div>The terms Internet Service Provider (ISP) and LIR are used interchangeably in this document. A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that assigns address space to the users of the network services that it provides. Therefore, LIRs / ISPs are organizations
that reassign addresses to end users and/or reallocate addresses to other ISPs/LIRs.</div>
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<div>2.6. End-user</div>
<div>An end-user is an organization receiving assignments of IP addresses exclusively for use in its operational networks, and does not register any reassignments of that space.</div>
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<div style="">Thoughts? Should I submit this as a policy proposal?</div>
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<div style="">-Scott</div>
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