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On 02-Sep-11 07:54, John Curran wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:E3939933-D032-4CA7-A8BC-6AE4FD1E2132@arin.net"
type="cite">
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<div>On Sep 1, 2011, at 5:44 PM, Stephen Sprunk wrote:</div>
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<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">I find it interesting
that your "quite a bit of time" did not include asking the
person who wrote that text, i.e. me, or reviewing the
threads here on the subject where the reasoning was
discussed several times--including ones I'm pretty sure you
participated in--or reviewing the transcripts of the
meetings where it was discussed.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
Steve - I'm well aware of that history, and was simply referring
to the open</div>
<div>ended option to initiate resource reviews. Much of what you
suggest is well</div>
<div>covered by 12.2b ("whenever ARIN has reason to believe that
the resources </div>
<div>were originally obtained fraudulently or in contravention of
existing policy")</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
There was little discussion of 12.2b, presumably because the need
for reviews in such cases was self-evident. Nearly all of the
discussion revolved around 12.2c, and specific examples were given
(by me and others) of why ARIN should be using that power--with
reasonable limits.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:E3939933-D032-4CA7-A8BC-6AE4FD1E2132@arin.net"
type="cite">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">Therefore, I will recap
the top reason: to find space that has been abandoned and is
therefore an attractive target for spammers and other
criminals. We're told ARIN spends a lot of time reacting to
hijackings, but IMHO the community would be better served by
being proactive. Returning such space to the free pool
would be a minor side benefit.<br>
<br>
Note that I would <i>not</i> recommend doing this at
random; it should be based on indicators of use such as the
time since last update, visibility in the DFZ, or whatever
other similarities y'all notice between the resources
involved in past fraud cases. Go for the "low-hanging
fruit" first and work your way up.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"><br>
</div>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">Understood, and this does
occur.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
You just said, a few hours ago, that you had never done a 12.2c
review. Has that changed in the meantime?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:E3939933-D032-4CA7-A8BC-6AE4FD1E2132@arin.net"
type="cite">
<div>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> I'd recommend that folks
also use the number resource fraud reporting page to highlight
possible issues, since there are more folks in the community
than in ARIN staff.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
It would be inappropriate to report abandoned/un-/underutilized
blocks as fraudulent prior to them being hijacked, since no fraud as
yet been committed.<br>
<br>
You appear to be stuck in a reactive mindset, i.e. only dealing with
hijacking <i>after</i> it has occurred. What I discuss above is
being proactive and initiating reviews on likely targets <i>before</i>
they are hijacked.<br>
<br>
Compare this:<br>
<br>
abandoned block -> review -> reclaim<br>
<br>
with this:<br>
<br>
abandoned block -> hijack -> complaint -> review ->
revoke<br>
<br>
IMHO, the latter exhibits better stewardship.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:E3939933-D032-4CA7-A8BC-6AE4FD1E2132@arin.net"
type="cite">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">Fears of capricious use
of that pre-existing capability in the RSA were the
motivator of NRPM 12: to
<i>limit </i>the harm that could be done if/when ARIN
decided to use that power in the future--which the community
seemed to desire in general.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
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<br>
<div>Indeed, and I believe that's quite prudent.</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Then why aren't you doing it?<br>
<br>
S<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
</pre>
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