<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Cathy,</div><div><br></div><div>With utmost respect, I agree that IPv6 is finite. However, given any allocation policy presently in existence or even proposed as yet, we will not run out of it before the protocol hits scaling limits unrelated to address size. Therefore, while we could run out by either getting vastly more creative with allocation policy or going to a new protocol that somehow removes those scaling limits while not changing the addressing scheme, I think that either of those events is so distant in the future as to be meaningfully never.</div><div><br></div><div>Owen</div><div><br><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On Sep 2, 2011, at 12:06, "<a href="mailto:cja@daydream.com">cja@daydream.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:packetgrrl@gmail.com">packetgrrl@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>Owen I get that IPv6 is very large but no matter how big it is it is still a finite resource. I get that we're not in the scarcity mode that we are with IPv4 but there was a time when folks in this community argued that IPv4 was so large we would never run out. We did run out and at some point we will run out of IPv6 too. Just because it's so large that a lot of folks feel they'll be dead when it runs out doesn't mean we still shouldn't consider our actions and realize that IPv6 is indeed a finite resource.<div>
<br></div><div>----Cathy<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 2:55 AM, Owen DeLong <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com"><a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a></a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><br><div><div class="im"><div>On Sep 2, 2011, at 12:28 AM, Matthew Kaufman wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
On 9/2/11 6:31 AM, Michael Wallace wrote:
<blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">I'm new over here. Been reading for a couple of weeks.<br>
</span></blockquote>
<br>
Welcome.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
<br>
The only issue I see with IP addresses is people not even making
an attempt to use IPv6. We have so many IP addresses in IPv6
that we should never run out. </span></blockquote>
<br>
That's a myth.<br>
<br></div></blockquote></div>Actually, no, it isn't.</div><div><div class="im"><br><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
The myth is that there's more IPv6 addresses than there are grains
of sand on every beach in the world. And while that's true, you'll
find that even if you put 100 hosts on every IPv6 subnet (which is
entirely unlikely) and use all of the space that isn't otherwise
reserved, you only have as many hosts supported as there are grains
of sand on a single small beach. Which isn't nearly enough to "never
run out".<br>
<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>The myth is... and while that's true...</div><div><br></div><div>Pick one... Either it's true, or, it's a myth.</div><div><br></div><div>I find it very interesting that you think there are 1,800 quintillion+ beaches. I do not believe that is possibly true.</div>
<div><br></div><div>There are 18 quintillion+ subnets available at /64, so, 100 hosts on each would be 1,800 quintillion+, so, your single beach claim is actually a myth.</div><div><br></div><div>From a quick scan of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_beaches" target="_blank"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_beaches">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_beaches</a></a> it appears that there are less than 1,000 beaches listed. Assuming they have</div>
<div>missed 9 out of 10 beaches (which I think unlikely), you're still at less than 10,000 beaches.</div><div><br></div><div>If we put 100 /64 subnets on each beach, we'd use 1,000,000 subnets or roughly a /44 of address IPv6 address space.</div>
<div><br></div><div>All the beaches on earth (and then some) with 100 IP addresses per grain of sand (I'm taking your and other people's</div><div>words for the idea that there are approximately 18,000,000,000,000,000,000 grains of sand per beach) would actually</div>
<div>only require a /44.</div><div><br></div><div>There are 17,592,000,000,000+ more /44s available in IPv6 even after this silly exercise.</div><div><br></div><div>I doubt we will "never" run out. 'Tis true. However, I do suspect that we will not run out within the expected lifetime of the protocol and that address size will not be the scaling limit that causes the eventual demise of IPv6.</div>
<div class="im"><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><br></span></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"> I tried to make a pretty big push to use IPv6 but
failed doing so. Only because I'm getting push back from my
upstream providers (Ill leave them unnamed). <br>
</span></blockquote>
<br>
Don't leave them unnamed. The best way to "push to use IPv6" is to
name who isn't making it possible.<br>
<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div><div>This, I completely agree with.</div><div><br></div><font color="#888888"><div>Owen</div><div><br></div></font></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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