<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div><span>We already have a policy proposal on the table to add "or transfer" to NRPM 12 to clarify that transfers are an acceptable way to get back into compliance. In addition, NRPM 12.6 already reads "</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size: 13px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; ">Except in cases of fraud, or violations of policy, an organization shall be given a minimum of six months to effect a return.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">"</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "><br>
</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">What additional protections do you feel are needed? I'll be happy to help put them into policy language for submission to <a href="mailto:policy@arin.net">policy@arin.net</a> if you'd like. </span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "><br>
</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">Thanks,</span></div>
<div><span>Scott</span><br><span></span><br><span>On Sep 2, 2011, at 12:25 AM, Matthew Kaufman <<a href="mailto:matthew@matthew.at">matthew@matthew.at</a>> wrote:</span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>On 9/2/11 6:16 AM, Owen DeLong wrote:</span><br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Sep 1, 2011, at 7:14 PM, Brett Frankenberger wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at 06:38:44PM -0700, Owen DeLong wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Mike,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<span> What risk do you see in listing un/under-utilized resources that is</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<span>not present in merely holding those resources?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Can't say for sure, but I'd guess it's comparable to the risk that</span><br>
</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>exists in taking out a full page add in the local newspaper announcing</span><br></blockquote></blockquote>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>"I will drive 80 in the 60 MPH speed zone at milepost X on highway Y at</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>XX:XX on XX/XX/2001" that isn't present in driving 80 in a 60 but not</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>advertising when and where you will be doing it.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Except that it would be more like doing that after the chief of police and</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<span>the commandant of the highway patrol had told you that making such</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>an announcement in and of itself would not cause them to pursue you.</span><br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>No, it is more like taking out an ad that says "I drive 80 MPH in the 60 MPH speed zone at milepost X on highway Y every day at 9 AM" after being told that making such an announcement was ok and hoping that the chief of police and the commandant of the highway patrol are never replaced with people who noticed your ad.</span><br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>The reason we change laws instead of just hoping the enforcers will just be fair despite what the language says is precisely because the enforcers change their minds and/or are retire and are replaced.</span><br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<span>If your resources are underutilized, ARIN *could* do a section 12 audit</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>and initiate reclamation. If you don't tell anyone that you are</span><br>
</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>underutilized, ARIN won't know, so they only way you'd get hit with an</span><br></blockquote></blockquote>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>audit is if you got really unlucky. If you tell the world (by putting</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>them up for auction), the risks get higher, because ARIN knows (or at</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>least has a strong indication) that you are underutilized.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>In spite of John's claims to the contrary, I actually believe that ARIN should</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>begin performing random reviews as time permits and should certainly</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>be looking for resources that appear to have a pattern of un/under-</span><br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>utilization.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>And this is even worse. We have members of the community saying "I know you've said that you're not going to be enforcing the speed limit for these flagrant violators, but I'd like you to start doing so".</span><br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<span>ARIN hasn't made a practice of doing that, and I agree with John's</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>statement that they aren't likely to start doing that. But if they</span><br>
</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>don't know you are underutilized, your risk is lower than if they do</span><br></blockquote></blockquote>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>know and you're relying on them to nevertheless refrain from an audit.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>In my view, the risk is very low either way. But it is lower if ARIN</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>doesn't have the information, and some companies are going to play it</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<span>safe.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<span>John's statement wasn't that they aren't likely to start doing so. John's</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>statement was that he did not feel that they should start doing so.</span><br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>John and I disagree in this area and I think at the end of the day</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<span>as scarcity becomes more of an issue, there will be more pressure</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>from the community to change John's position on this. John answers</span><br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>to the board. The board answers to the members.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<span>And so the members have a legitimate reason to have the policy changed, rather than simply relying on John's word as to what he would choose to do this week as an indication of how policy will always be interpreted.</span><br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Matthew Kaufman</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
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