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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>This is all an unnecessary and needlessly confusing
set of rules whose only purpose is to attempt to impose some restriction on the
downwards slide towards disaggregation which will happen whatever policies we
prescribe.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>In a fluid transfer market, nobody will purposely
select to fill their needs with a smattering of smaller netblocks, they will by
nature attempt to acquire the largest block to suit their purchase requirements,
if only to relieve them of configuration complexity.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>In fact, my guess is that people will tend to round
up, to allow for a little more room to grow within a contiguous block, bounded
of course by the cost of holding unused inventory of
addresses. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Larger netblocks are more likely to be routed
everywhere than smaller ones, and this alone will drive consumers towards
aggregation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Creating a new and confusing set of rules related
to timeframes for allowed purchases, tracking original registration sizes
through potentially multiple transactions, restricting sellers from selling off
chunks of their holdings, these things are exactly what would be wrong in
putting the steward's lightest touch on things.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Because they would inevitably lead to buyers with a
real need not getting addresses in a timely fashion, additional listing
requirements (like original allocation size), and of course, lots more
transactions happening off the books and leading to a decay in Whois accuracy
and representing a failure of our primary stewardship role.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>And where is the evidence that this will serve as
an actual check on disaggregation, and where is the evidence that we are
BGP-table bound, in any real sense?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>The check on the growth of the table will not come
from the RIR's, in a post-exhaust world, it will come from the decisions of the
network operator group about what the minimum routable block size
is.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I oppose the policy.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Mike</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=frnkblk@iname.com href="mailto:frnkblk@iname.com">Frank Bulk</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=scottleibrand@gmail.com
href="mailto:scottleibrand@gmail.com">'Scott Leibrand'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=arin-ppml@arin.net
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 31, 2011 8:10 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-prop-153
Correct erroneous syntax in NRPM 8.3</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">As
long as everyone works within the ARIN transfer policy, attaching the limits
on the recipients would seem sufficient. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Echoing
previous posters’ concerns, those who fall under the “3 month” needs
demonstration may create more disaggregation if they have to get small chunks
every time rather than a chunk two or three times larger. Ideally
they’re buying the chunks contiguously. I don’t know if we can/should
incent them to do that, or if having a contiguous block and not having to find
a new seller each time is incentive enough. I mean, if they really think
they’re going to grow, they’ll likely want to create a contract from the same
seller to buy more chunks.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Frank<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Scott Leibrand
[mailto:scottleibrand@gmail.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 31, 2011 12:27
AM<BR><B>To:</B> frnkblk@iname.com<BR><B>Cc:</B> Owen DeLong;
arin-ppml@arin.net<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-prop-153 Correct
erroneous syntax in NRPM 8.3<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>ARIN deaggregates /8s into /22s
and /20s today, so that's not really much different. It seems that any
restriction needs to be on the recipient getting a bunch of deaggregates, not
on a large block holder transferring to lots of smaller
recipients. <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Scott<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><BR>On May 30, 2011, at 7:16
PM, "Frank Bulk" <<A
href="mailto:frnkblk@iname.com">frnkblk@iname.com</A>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">That’s
a good goal, but how does this policy manage disaggregation where a larger
block owner has the opportunity to sell to different buyers? For
example, the owner of a /8 that has an unused /10 could sell /12’s to four
different buyers. On one hand there’s a desire to minimize
disaggregation, on the other hand if there’s unused space that others with a
validated need could use, why not.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Frank</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Owen DeLong
[mailto:<A href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</A>]
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 30, 2011 11:28 AM<BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:frnkblk@iname.com">frnkblk@iname.com</A><BR><B>Cc:</B> <A
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-prop-153 Correct erroneous syntax in NRPM
8.3</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>If they can find two /15s that started out as /15s, then
there's no problem. The issue comes if they, for example,<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>find someone with a /8 and want to get two disparate /15s
from within that /8. The intent here is to require<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>the /8 holder to renumber enough to make a contiguous /14
available rather than transferring two disparate<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>/15s and disaggregating them.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Owen<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>On May 29, 2011, at 9:34 PM, Frank Bulk
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I’m
confused. If an organization can demonstrate need for a /14 and they
can only find a /15 in the market today, why should they have to wait a
whole year if they can find another /15 just a few months later? Why
should we penalize them for the fact that the supply at the time of need is
low? Is it because you want someone else with demonstrable need to get
that second /15? If that’s the case, won’t that be based on who’s
willing to pay top dollar for that /15? </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Frank</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A
href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</A><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[mailto:<A
href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</A>]<SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>On Behalf Of<SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN></B>Owen
DeLong<BR><B>Sent:</B><SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Sunday,
May 29, 2011 10:46 PM<BR><B>To:</B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Brett
Frankenberger<BR><B>Cc:</B><SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</A><BR><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-prop-153
Correct erroneous syntax in NRPM 8.3</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><snip></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>What I would think makes more sense as policy would
be:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 30pt">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Organizations may transfer multiple address blocks
but<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>no organization shall receive more than one address
block<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>per year where said address block is
smaller<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>than its original registered
size.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><snip></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV>
<P
class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<BR>PPML<BR>You
are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<BR>the ARIN Public
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href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</A>).<BR>Unsubscribe or
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contact <A href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</A> if you experience
any issues.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>PPML<BR>You are
receiving this message because you are subscribed to<BR>the ARIN Public Policy
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