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<div>Hey Mike,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I will get you the dates shortly. Just confirming some of the deadlines. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On a separate point, I have to disagree with one comment below. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes, suggesting the RIR oversee themselves. The problem is that the RIR do not make the policies. It is the thousands of individuals in the Internet technical community
around the world (of which you are included) that make the rules. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have seen Internet policy shaped by large corporations, small town ISPs, individuals from all corners of the globe that have no political clout or financial influence, and am watching you shape the discussion right here. This past week I have seen the
head of ARIN acknowledge several points made on this list regarding transfer policies, the RSA, and operational procedures that may lead to changes in the future. I have a hard time understanding your question of who is watching the RIR when you are one of
the watchmen you are asking about.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Dan</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Mike Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@nationwideinc.com">mike@nationwideinc.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tue, 3 May 2011 15:02:03 -0400<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Microsoft Office User <<a href="mailto:daniel_alexander@cable.comcast.com">daniel_alexander@cable.comcast.com</a>>, <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [arin-ppml] Fw: Accusation of fundamentalconflictofinterest/IPaddress policy pitched directly to ICANN<br>
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Hi Dan,</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Yes, I do support the kind of oversight recommended in the letter, using as a model the requirements to be a DNS registrar.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Perhaps this alone is justification for the highest level decisionmaking.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Since a competing registry would be on the same level as the existing RIR's, in effect we would be asking the RIRs to oversee themselves if we allowed the RIRs to decide the issue, whether at the RIR or ASO level.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"><em>Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?</em></font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">I do understand and appreciate the beauty of the non-governmental approach to Internet governance.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">I think the many kinds of conflicts you reference in your last paragraph are likely to be sorted out around the world in courts and legislatures, which I think are probably better suited to that task than ARIN.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Much like the evolution (or de-evolution) of the Domain Name System.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">I will certainly vet any policy proposal I offer here, though can you give me an idea of the timeframe for proposals to be considered at the next AC meeting, should enough support manifest on the list?</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Regards,</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Mike</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
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<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
<a title="Daniel_Alexander@Cable.Comcast.com" href="mailto:Daniel_Alexander@Cable.Comcast.com">
Alexander, Daniel</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="arin-ppml@arin.net" href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">
arin-ppml@arin.net</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:49 PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Fw: Accusation of fundamentalconflictofinterest/IPaddress policy pitched directly to ICANN</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Mike,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As one of the AC shepherds for the proposals that were abandoned, I would offer one suggestion. Feel free to vet the proposal language you are considering here on this list prior to submitting an actual proposal. That is what this list is for. It would
also help refine the scope that Keith mentions, and avoid the confusion that earlier proposals created. It is much easier to refine and evolve policy language on the ppml before it becomes part of the PDP process. </div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; FONT-SIZE: medium" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"><br>
</span></span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; FONT-SIZE: medium" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">If you look </span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri" class="Apple-style-span">back to proposals 133, 134, and 136, they suggested that resource
holders </span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">could opt-in, opt-out, or find the lowest common denominator to establish </span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri" class="Apple-style-span">claim. </span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri" class="Apple-style-span">While
this would allow for what you propose, they offered none of the oversight that you advocate, which is also why there was such a cold reception. </span></span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; FONT-SIZE: medium" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri" class="Apple-style-span"><br>
</span></span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; FONT-SIZE: medium" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri" class="Apple-style-span">You can see how a competing registry, that is operating properly, could do so in a complimentary manner to the RIR.
One thing people will have issue with is how the overall model can exist with the individuals who would try to create registries that would not apply similar standards of operation. Without any protections, the ISP's who would have to rely on this data would
not be able to depend on the overall system (not referring to any particular registry) which is the shift in burden I mentioned in an earlier post. </span></span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; FONT-SIZE: medium" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri" class="Apple-style-span"><br>
</span></span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; FONT-SIZE: medium" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri" class="Apple-style-span">While people may have issues with the quality of whois, or registration of assignments, there is an upside to the
current system. In this region, data points to ARIN and anyone can get involved, change the rules, and try and hold ARIN accountable. In the distributed model that is proposed, accountability is spread out, and the ability to resolve conflicts or issues becomes
much harder. These are the kind of concerns that need to be addressed in order to gain momentum on a change of this scale. </span></span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; FONT-SIZE: medium" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri" class="Apple-style-span"><br>
</span></span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; FONT-SIZE: medium" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri" class="Apple-style-span">I hope this helps.</span></span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; FONT-SIZE: medium" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri" class="Apple-style-span"><br>
</span></span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; FONT-SIZE: medium" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri" class="Apple-style-span">Dan Alexander</span></span></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; FONT-SIZE: medium"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri">ARIN AC- speaking only for myself</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From: </span>"Keith W. Hare" <<a href="mailto:Keith@jcc.com">Keith@jcc.com</a>><br>
<span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Date: </span>Tue, 3 May 2011 13:56:28 -0400<br>
<span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To: </span>Mike Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@nationwideinc.com">mike@nationwideinc.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
<span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject: </span>Re: [arin-ppml] Fw: Accusation of fundamental conflictofinterest/IPaddress policy pitched directly to ICANN<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Mike,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">So far, we have seen only bits of policy proposals that hint at the idea of competing private address registries. Without a policy proposal that
covers all of the details, we are left to extrapolate the remaining pieces. This extrapolation may or may not be what competing address registry proponents have in mind, but until we see a full policy proposal, we are left with only perceptions of your (and
others) motivations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Keith<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">
<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a> [<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mike Burns<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Sweeting<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Fw: Accusation of fundamental conflictofinterest/IPaddress policy pitched directly to ICANN<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong>It really is as easy as rounding up all the support you can muster, have that support join PPML, submit the proposal that you would like see made policy and then have your support show their support through PPML and the next PPM.
Is there a reason you do not want to follow that process? It might help gain support if you provided your underlying motivation(s).</strong><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "><br>
<strong><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">-John Sweeting</span></strong></span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Hi John,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">My interest is in having a market for the buying and selling of IP addresses free from government and psuedo-government restrictions like taxes and justification requirements.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">I think this will best serve the interests of a community long held in thrall to the vision of an IPv6 transition that simply has not occurred in anything like the predicted
timeframe.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">I would prefer that any support I find not be motivated by perceptions of my motivations, just my words and ideas.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">I voiced support for the concept of having a informed higher authority make the decision about competing registries requested in the letter which started the thread. I support
competing registries because I believe that their competitive forces will move the market towards freedom, and because presumably a competing registry could decide its own, more liberal transfer policy.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">My understanding is that one way to get that accomplished, and I will accede it would be the better way, would be for the participants in policy making in all 5 RIRs come together
to forge a policy allowing for competing private registries.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">But I think that is like expecting Network Solutions to have voted for competing DNS registrars. Unlikely to happen due to institutional conflicts of interest.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">(I understand that NetSol was not a community run org like the RIRs, but I see a natural institutional conflict between those who dominate a closed market and those who seek
to expand it.)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">(And yes, this is also a commentary on the tiny number of participants who seem to people the RIR executive positions, and by extension the tiny groups of vocal participants
in the RIR-PPML process.)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">(And yes, I have lost trust in ARIN staff since the MS/Nortel debacle)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">But nobody seems too sure what that higher authority is, and of course some participants see the community of RIR-PPML participants as the highest authority of all.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">I didn't write that letter, nor do I have any relationship with the writer of the letter, to my knowledge I have never met, conversed, or emailed with him.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">As for changing policy in the ARIN region, that is my intent, and I have heard from another poster who is interested in co-sponsoring a proposal designed to create a free market
for ip transfers.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">So I will work with him to do just as you say, round up support and see if we can get a proposal that passes muster with the PPML and can be included in the next PPM.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Mike Burns</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
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