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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Hi Jonathan, answers inline.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>>What is broken about ARIN is that scandalously large numbers of
netblocks do not have valid POCs, for example. The stewardship of Whois leaves a
lot to be desired.</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>>What steps would a commercial entity take to resolve this that RIRs
cannot?</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>A commercial entity could recognize
justification-free legacy transfers, and many legacy transfers happened
but were not reflected in Whois because of this.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Not that the RIRs cannot do this, but they have
not. It could well be that changing conditions will cause a realization of the
legal realities of these transfers, and induce an RIR community to change policy
to turn that registry into a title agency, reviewing evidence of property
transfers without reference to the need to transfer networks or customers, or
justify a need.</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>>Competitive pressures would help to finally decide who controls these
addresses and allow them to be transferred to those who would pay for
them.<BR>>Leaving other equally "worthy" entities with less money unable to
acquire space despite their need?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I meant competitive pressures between registries,
but sure, poor entities couldn't afford expensive IP addresses.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>>Network operators don't really have much of a choice in accessing Whois
information to determine the rights to advertise addresses, and competive
registries.<BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>>I'd argue that network operators are the very ones who give the RIR
their "power." I also don't see why you seem to claim that they can't? Tell me,
what's stopping them from using whatever registry they want?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I couldn't agree more. I don't think there really
is anything stopping them from using whatever registry they want. I think they
have slim pickings in registries now, and use what they have, but they don't
trust it unilaterally. If a registry comes along that offers network operators
some insurance against conflict or abuse claims, my bet is they would avail
themselves of it rather than turn down business.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>>What is broken about ARIN is that their transfer policies are more
restrictive than APNICs, and that will cause a flow of addresses out of ARIN and
into APNIC.<BR>>Could you explain why you think this?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>All else being equal, I believe buyers and sellers
will migrate towards the freer market. The justification is like a transaction
cost. Transactions will go to where the cost is lowest.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>>Not to speak for him but you <I>did</I> say " Competitive
pressures would help to finally decide who controls these addresses and allow
them to be transferred to those who would pay for them."</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>>Were you not suggesting that the folks with the most money would be the
ones who got address space registered to their name and the others would be out
in the rain?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>>Let me know if I misunderstood.</DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Yes, you misunderstood, I was talking about
competitive pressures between registries. If a registry becomes freer, like
APNIC did, it puts competitive pressures on the other registries to free their
markets up, that's what I was trying to say. Sorry if I was unclear. But
yes, eventually it will cost money to get IP addresses. I guess the richer you
are, the more easy it will be to acquire addresses in the post-exhaust world. I
don't see any honest way around this, but at least this will serve to free up
huge swaths of address space currently on the sideline. Wouldn't this buy some
time to finally get that orderly V6 transition in motion?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Mike Burns</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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dir=ltr>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>A competitive registry could presumably have a different
transfer policy, as APNICs differs from ARINs. </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>What is broken about ARIN is that ARIN has professed no
statutory control over legacy addresses in the Plzak declaration in the
Kremen case, and yet attempts to control the registration of legacy
resources.<BR>With a private registry, the address rights holders can choose
to opt-out of ARIN's dictats and choose their registry
voluntarily.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>As I said above, I don't think there is anything stopping someone from
"choosing their registry voluntarily." </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>I don't see how the creation of a private registry will
perturb the current mechanisms in a way that costs you money, could you
share why you feel that way?<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Not to speak for him but you <I>did</I> say " Competitive
pressures would help to finally decide who controls these addresses and allow
them to be transferred to those who would pay for them."</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Were you not suggesting that the folks with the most money would be the
ones who got address space registered to their name and the others would be
out in the rain?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Let me know if I misunderstood.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Jon Fernatt</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>