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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><BR clear=all><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman">>Owen, </FONT>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>>Would you be in support of an open exchange if there were basic
controls in place to lockout speculators? <BR>>Jeffrey Lyon, Leadership
Team<BR></DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Jeff,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I would think that Owen would support speculation,
as given the inevitable transition to IPv6, hoarders and speculators will take
it in the shorts, plus driving up the price will drive us towards IPV6 even
faster. </FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Some inherent limits on speculation in
this market...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>As far as cornering the market, even the Hunt
brothers would be unable to corner a market which is currently valued at close
to $50 billion and rising.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>(4.3 billion addresses times $11)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Mike</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jeffrey.lyon@blacklotus.net
href="mailto:jeffrey.lyon@blacklotus.net">Jeffrey Lyon</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=owen@delong.com
href="mailto:owen@delong.com">Owen DeLong</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=mike@nationwideinc.com
href="mailto:mike@nationwideinc.com">Mike Burns</A> ; <A
title=arin-ppml@arin.net
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</A> ; <A
title=rudi.daniel@gmail.com href="mailto:rudi.daniel@gmail.com">Rudolph
Daniel</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 02, 2011 7:34 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [arin-ppml] NRPN 8.2 &
2.3</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Owen DeLong <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV class=im>
<DIV>On May 2, 2011, at 12:57 PM, Mike Burns wrote:</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px">
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman">>It
seems the community is</FONT>
<DIV>>rather divided with some advocating a complete abandonment</DIV>
<DIV>>of the principles of stewardship in favor of a laissez
faire</DIV>
<DIV>>address economy while others favor preservation of the</DIV>
<DIV>>principles of stewardship and justified need while enabling</DIV>
<DIV>>market incentives to free up space.</DIV>
<DIV>>Owen</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Removing artificial restrictions on the
transfer of IP address space is not, as Owen persists in characterizing
it, an abandonment of the principles of
stewardship.</FONT></DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>Yes... It is.</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=im><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px">
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Stewardship simply means different things
pre- and post-exhaust.</FONT></DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>No, it does not.</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=im><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px">
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Pre-exhaust requires needs analyses to
ensure efficient use of address space.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Post-exahust, efficient use is ensured by the
same market incentives you claim enables the freeing up of
space.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>To wit,
price.</FONT></DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px">
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>I don't believe that is a
dependable system because without the needs basis,</DIV>
<DIV>you open up the potential for a new class of organization... The
speculator</DIV>
<DIV>who wants to come in, use vast financial resources to acquire all
addresses</DIV>
<DIV>priced below some threshold he believes to be viable and then wait
until</DIV>
<DIV>the market desire for the resource exceeds that price (potentially by a
wide</DIV>
<DIV>margin). This delays the availability of addresses to a wider set of
justified</DIV>
<DIV>need while increasing the price without benefit to the community.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>The only entitiy that gains in this environment is the speculator.
Everyone else</DIV>
<DIV>loses.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>That is, regardless of what else you may think, in my mind an obvious
abandonment</DIV>
<DIV>of the responsibility of stewardship.</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=im><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px">
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I don't believe that there has been an answer
to those of us who said that while it is grammatically acceptable to
decide that a "single aggregate" relates to the needs justification, it is
nonsensical to do that, as all needs analyses result in a single
aggregate. You don't have a needs analysis at any time where it is found
that a need is outside CIDR boundaries. Need assessment has always rounded
up to that boundary.</FONT></DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px">
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>I agree with you that is
the case.</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=im><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px">
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>No, the only way to interpret the language of
8.3 is that the reception of the addresses should occur as a single
aggregate, which is clear has not occurred with 8.3.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>To say the staff or the board acted outside
of policy is correct in the MS/Nortel case.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>While it is
nonsensical, I have found that the law is often nonsensical in its</DIV>
<DIV>interpretation of plain English. The supreme court has somehow
managed</DIV>
<DIV>to interpret the plain English of the first amendment to include the
ability</DIV>
<DIV>to bankroll a campaign by a corporation as a form of protected free
speech.</DIV>
<DIV>To me, this seems completely nonsensical.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>So, we can't rule out a nonsensical interpretation and we need to
write</DIV>
<DIV>language that cannot be nonsensically interpreted.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT color=#888888>
<DIV>Owen</DIV></FONT>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=h5>
<DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px">
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Mike</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(228,228,228)"><B>From:</B><SPAN> </SPAN><A
title=owen@delong.com href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target=_blank>Owen
DeLong</A></DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B><SPAN> </SPAN><A title=rudi.daniel@gmail.com
href="mailto:rudi.daniel@gmail.com" target=_blank>Rudolph
Daniel</A></DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B><SPAN> </SPAN><A title=arin-ppml@arin.net
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"
target=_blank>arin-ppml@arin.net</A></DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B><SPAN> </SPAN>Monday, May 02, 2011 3:44 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B><SPAN> </SPAN>Re: [arin-ppml] NRPN 8.2 &
2.3</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>At this point, I would agree. However, I would like to
wait until I
<DIV>get a chance to discuss the matter with ARIN Counsel and</DIV>
<DIV>further discuss it with staff before I start crafting
proposals</DIV>
<DIV>to do so.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I don't feel that staff or the board have acted improperly. I
think</DIV>
<DIV>that policy failed to express the community intent well
enough</DIV>
<DIV>as to achieve or goals.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I will continue to work on finding a way to bring policy better
in</DIV>
<DIV>line with community intent, but, the hard part will be
achieving</DIV>
<DIV>consensus on what that intent is. It seems the community is</DIV>
<DIV>rather divided with some advocating a complete abandonment</DIV>
<DIV>of the principles of stewardship in favor of a laissez faire</DIV>
<DIV>address economy while others favor preservation of the</DIV>
<DIV>principles of stewardship and justified need while enabling</DIV>
<DIV>market incentives to free up space.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>It is most unfortunate that we failed to produce clear policy</DIV>
<DIV>in 2009-1. I hope we can correct it at Philadelphia.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Owen</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Apr 30, 2011, at 6:48 PM, Rudolph Daniel wrote:</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">It would seem clear to me that at the very
least, NRPN 8.2 and 8.3 requires rephrasing. Is that also the view of
the ppml?
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>rd<BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>>> for such resources, as a single
aggregate", not that a single<BR>>> aggregate be
transferred.<BR>><BR>> ... I do not believe that Stephen's
interpretation below matches the<BR>> meaning or the intent of
the policy as I understand it. ...<BR><BR>I don't think it does
either, for the record. However, this points out<BR>how bad
wording has left us in a situation where we're not sure
/what/<BR>the policy text means--much less whether we agree with
it.<BR><BR>> I do agree that your interpretation would be a
syntactically and<BR>> grammatically valid construction,
but, I believe it is contextually<BR>> nonsensical and not the
intended meaning of the words.<BR>><BR>> If anyone has a
suggestion for making the actual intent more clear, I<BR>> am
open to suggestions and would support making an editorial<BR>>
correction for clarity.<BR><BR>If you can provide examples of
transfers you both do and don't wish to<BR>allow, I'll be happy to
come up with wording to express your intent. As<BR>it stands,
though, I don't understand your (or anyone else's) intent<BR>well
enough to try.<BR><BR>S<BR><BR>--<BR>Stephen Sprunk
"God does not play dice." --Albert
Einstein<BR>CCIE #3723 "God is an
inveterate gambler, and He throws the<BR>K5SSS
dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen
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target=_blank>http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20110430/ab367759/attachment-0001.bin</A>><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message:
2<BR>Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 20:28:39 -0400<BR>From: William Herrin
<<A href="mailto:bill@herrin.us"
target=_blank>bill@herrin.us</A>><BR>To: John Curran <<A
href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net"
target=_blank>jcurran@arin.net</A>><BR>Cc: Public Policy Mailing
List <<A href="mailto:ppml@arin.net"
target=_blank>ppml@arin.net</A>><BR>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Call
for a study & survey to obtain necessary<BR>
information for policy development<BR>Message-ID:
<BANLkTi=0i9isaCTnsTQC9NO=<A
href="mailto:PX2RAcSt1A@mail.gmail.com"
target=_blank>PX2RAcSt1A@mail.gmail.com</A>><BR>Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<BR><BR>On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 7:51
AM, John Curran <<A href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net"
target=_blank>jcurran@arin.net</A>> wrote:<BR>> ? contains a
specific call for ARIN to charter a study including<BR>> ? a
survey in order to obtain additional information to assist
in<BR>> ? policy development.<BR>><BR>> ? I've not seen any
discussion of this suggestion; would it be<BR>> ? possible to get
feedback from the otherwise shy participants<BR>> ? on the PPML
mailing list?<BR>><BR>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 5:46 PM, Jeffrey
Lyon wrote:<BR>>> what we should do is<BR>>> charter
ARIN to conduct a comprehensive study and:<BR>>><BR>>> -
Conduct a survey of the public at large, PPML users, full
members,<BR>>> resource holders, and the AC to gain a clear
understanding of<BR>>> sentiment for or against an open
market.<BR>>> - Determine how many companies actually have
IPv6 migration plans and<BR>>> ascertain road blocks, either
legitimate or financial, that are<BR>>> preventing
migration.<BR>>> - Would resource holders support a model that
allowed ARIN to take a<BR>>> small commission on resource
sales and then discontinue the practice<BR>>> of charging an
annual fee to its members who are not buying and<BR>>> selling
resources.<BR><BR>These seem like they could be determined by
survey.<BR><BR><BR>>> - In the survey, ask IPv4 resource
holders to anonymously disclose<BR>>> their true utilization
rates and determine if companies are hoarding<BR>>> resources
either in hopes of future resale or to cover an
arbitrary<BR>>> future need.<BR>>> - Determine the
amount of participants that would come forward if told<BR>>>
they could resell their space on the open market and
ultimately<BR>>> determine how much unneeded space is being
locked away in loosely<BR>>> justified
allocations.<BR>>> - Determine if resource holders would be
encouraged to tighten up<BR>>> internal policies and free up
more space if there were a fair market<BR>>> value assigned to
their space.<BR><BR>These strike me as very difficult to determine
by anything approaching<BR>a statistically valid survey. I would
want to see a detailed<BR>methodology proposed before agreeing
either that money should be spent<BR>conducting the survey or that
the results would have merit to<BR>contribute to the policy
debate.<BR><BR><BR>>> - Determine the economic impact. Would
resource holders be better off<BR>>> selling their resources
to more affluent companies who would be able<BR>>> to put the
space to better use? Might there be a host of struggling<BR>>>
small businesses who would like to put their /17 - /21 on the
balance<BR>>> sheet? Are there companies that would purchase
IPv4 space at a premium<BR>>> if allowed to do so?<BR><BR>This
would require a cost analysis of a great many factors, only
some<BR>of which have been touched on in the listed survey. Given
the abject<BR>lack of use of cost analysis in the Internet industry,
it would<BR>require at least three independent cost analyses and
considerable<BR>subsequent debate on and validation of the
methodologies...<BR><BR>Start here:<SPAN> </SPAN><A
href="http://www.sceaonline.net/"
target=_blank>http://www.sceaonline.net/</A><BR><BR>Disclaimer: my
father is a crotchety old cost analyst so I get a<BR>regular earful
about this stuff.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Bill
Herrin<BR><BR><BR>--<BR>William D. Herrin
................<SPAN> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:herrin@dirtside.com"
target=_blank>herrin@dirtside.com</A>?<SPAN> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:bill@herrin.us"
target=_blank>bill@herrin.us</A><BR>3005 Crane Dr.
...................... Web: <<A href="http://bill.herrin.us/"
target=_blank>http://bill.herrin.us/</A>><BR>Falls Church, VA
22042-3004<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message:
3<BR>Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 20:39:08 -0400<BR>From: William Herrin
<<A href="mailto:bill@herrin.us"
target=_blank>bill@herrin.us</A>><BR>To: Owen DeLong <<A
href="mailto:owen@delong.com"
target=_blank>owen@delong.com</A>><BR>Cc: John Curran <<A
href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net"
target=_blank>jcurran@arin.net</A>>, arin-ppml <<A
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"
target=_blank>arin-ppml@arin.net</A>><BR>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml]
Analogies<BR>Message-ID: <BANLkTimzAx7_S=<A
href="mailto:oaHiEB2epuXmMiBc136w@mail.gmail.com"
target=_blank>oaHiEB2epuXmMiBc136w@mail.gmail.com</A>><BR>Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<BR><BR>On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 1:31
AM, Owen DeLong <<A href="mailto:owen@delong.com"
target=_blank>owen@delong.com</A>> wrote:<BR>> I will point
out that ARIN is the only registry that did not start<BR>>
charging their legacy holders shortly after coming into
existence.<BR>><BR>> APNIC, RIPE, AfriNIC, and LACNIC all
charge their legacy holders<BR>> annual fees to the best of my
knowledge.<BR>><BR>> I do not know whether a contract was
required in any or all cases,<BR>> but, the fee portion of the
equation is unique to ARIN to the best<BR>> of my
knowledge.<BR><BR>Hi Owen,<BR><BR>I will suggest that an attempt by
ARIN to charge $100/year under a<BR>contract simplified to, "We
agree to keep your whois data and RDNS<BR>delegations intact as is
for one year increments until either of us<BR>choose to cancel this
contract" would meet with at most mild<BR>resistance from the legacy
registrants. It would also, IMHO, provide<BR>an excellent way to
weed out the abandoned registrations.<BR><BR>This hasn't been done
in part because we, in this forum, have insisted<BR>that legacy
registrants should not be invited into the fold under
such<BR>terms.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Bill
Herrin<BR><BR><BR>--<BR>William D. Herrin
................<SPAN> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:herrin@dirtside.com"
target=_blank>herrin@dirtside.com</A>?<SPAN> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:bill@herrin.us"
target=_blank>bill@herrin.us</A><BR>3005 Crane Dr.
...................... Web: <<A href="http://bill.herrin.us/"
target=_blank>http://bill.herrin.us/</A>><BR>Falls Church, VA
22042-3004<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message:
4<BR>Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 20:43:29 -0400<BR>From: "Mike Burns"
<<A href="mailto:mike@nationwideinc.com"
target=_blank>mike@nationwideinc.com</A>><BR>To: "Stephen Sprunk"
<<A href="mailto:stephen@sprunk.org"
target=_blank>stephen@sprunk.org</A>>, "Owen
DeLong"<BR> <<A
href="mailto:owen@delong.com"
target=_blank>owen@delong.com</A>><BR>Cc:<SPAN> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"
target=_blank>arin-ppml@arin.net</A><BR>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml]
ARIN / Microsoft press release regarding IP<BR>
addressTransfers<BR>Message-ID:
<7B6110E30D2E40CDA7E10BCB85E290B7@video><BR>Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="utf-8"<BR><BR>>If you can provide examples
of transfers you both do and don't wish to allow, I'll be happy to
come up with wording to express your intent. As it stands,
though, I >don't understand your (or anyone else's) intent well
enough to try.<BR><BR>>S<BR><BR>Steve,<BR><BR>Here is why I call
BS on the claim that these transfers comply with
policy:<BR><BR>"Such transferred number resources may only be
received under RSA by organizations that are within the ARIN region
and can demonstrate the need for such resources, as a single
aggregate, in the exact amount which they can justify under current
ARIN policies."<BR><BR>That is the text. The comma between resources
and "as a single aggregate" can be read to cause the "as a single
aggregate" clause to apply to either the verb phrase "be received"
or the verb phrase "can demonstrate."<BR><BR>But how would anybody
demonstrate a need for multiple netblocks anyway?<BR>Isn't the need
ALWAYS determined as a single
aggregate?<BR><BR>Regards,<BR><BR>Mike<BR><BR><BR><BR> -----
Original Message -----<BR> From: Stephen Sprunk<BR> To:
Owen DeLong<BR> Cc:<SPAN> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"
target=_blank>arin-ppml@arin.net</A><BR> Sent: Saturday, April
30, 2011 8:27 PM<BR> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN / Microsoft
press release regarding IP addressTransfers<BR><BR><BR> On
16-Apr-11 02:19, Owen DeLong wrote:<BR><BR> On Apr 15,
2011, at 9:53 PM, Stephen Sprunk wrote:<BR><BR>
On 15-Apr-11 19:00, Matthew Kaufman wrote:<BR><BR>
The adopted policies (if they are using the
"relatively new policy" as alluded to in the release) require the
transfer of *a single aggregate*.<BR><BR><BR> Not
quite. NRPM 8.3 only requires the receiver "demonstrate the
need for such resources, as a single aggregate", not that a single
aggregate be transferred.<BR><BR> ... I do not believe
that Stephen's interpretation below matches the meaning or the
intent of the policy as I understand it. ...<BR><BR> I don't
think it does either, for the record. However, this points out
how bad wording has left us in a situation where we're not sure what
the policy text means--much less whether we agree with
it.<BR><BR><BR> I do agree that your interpretation
would be a syntactically and grammatically valid construction,
but, I believe it is contextually nonsensical and not the intended
meaning of the words.<BR><BR><BR> If anyone has a
suggestion for making the actual intent more clear, I am open to
suggestions and would support making an editorial correction for
clarity.<BR><BR> If you can provide examples of transfers you
both do and don't wish to allow, I'll be happy to come up with
wording to express your intent. As it stands, though, I don't
understand your (or anyone else's) intent well enough to
try.<BR><BR> S<BR><BR><BR>--<BR>Stephen Sprunk
"God does not play dice." --Albert
Einstein<BR>CCIE #3723 "God is an
inveterate gambler, and He throws the<BR>K5SSS
dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen
Hawking<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR><BR> _______________________________________________<BR> PPML<BR> You
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<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Would you be in support of an open exchange if there were basic controls
in place to lockout speculators? <BR>
<DIV><BR>-- <BR>
<P>Jeffrey Lyon, Leadership Team<BR><A
href="mailto:jeffrey.lyon@blacklotus.net"
target=_blank>jeffrey.lyon@blacklotus.net</A> | <A
href="http://www.blacklotus.net/"
target=_blank>http://www.blacklotus.net</A><BR>Black Lotus Communications -
AS32421<BR>First and Leading in DDoS Protection
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