<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>On May 2, 2011, at 4:45 PM, Mike Burns wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div bgcolor="#ffffff" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font size="2" face="Arial"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">>Not true. The chaos and disruption posed by unregulated registries will</font><div>>increase the costs to ARIN, ARIN members, and other participants in the</div><div>>industry regardless of whether they change registries or not.</div><div>>Owen</div><div> </div><div>This is an assertion unsupported by facts. What additional costs will be imposed on ARIN?</div></font></div></div></span></blockquote><div><br></div>ARIN will have to interact with and provide services to competing registries acting</div><div>without regard to community derived policies. This will, by definition create costs.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div bgcolor="#ffffff" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font size="2" face="Arial"><div>True they would have to update a field in the whois database to point to the authoritative registry, sort of like the pointers to other RIRs in there now.</div></font></div></div></span></blockquote><div><br></div>The pointers to other RIRs are very static. The pointers to these competing registries would be very dynamic.</div><div>That is a cost.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div bgcolor="#ffffff" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font size="2" face="Arial"><div><div>The letter to ICANN that began this thread included a set of regulations adopted from those used in the creation of private DNS registries.</div><div>Why do you keep insisting they would be unregulated?</div></div></font></div></div></span></blockquote><div><br></div>I consider the current DNS registries virtually unregulated and the system that has been</div><div>created to be a haven for abuse, spammers, and all manner of monetization of degenerate</div><div>behavior. The fact that you have chosen this fundamentally flawed model as your shining</div><div>example of success is why I continue to refer to it as a recipe for failure.</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div bgcolor="#ffffff" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font size="2" face="Arial"><div><div>Like the RIR's, like DNS Registries, all approved registries do answer to the community through adherence to those community-defined regulations.</div></div></font></div></div></span></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div bgcolor="#ffffff" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font size="2" face="Arial"><div><div> </div></div></font></div></div></span></blockquote><div><br></div>The DNS registries do not answer to the community. They answer to a very narrow</div><div>group of people motivated to make money out of creating additional TLDs as near</div><div>as I can tell.</div><div><br></div><div>Where is the community forum for DNS activity regarding gTLDs that provides an</div><div>equivalent open forum to PPML and the ARIN Public Policy Meetings?</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div bgcolor="#ffffff" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font size="2" face="Arial"><div><div>If you are concerned about groundup or community development, may I suggest revisiting Benson's proposals, which were an attempt to create the policy which would allow for the creation of alternate registries under ARIN policy, but which met with an untimely end based on John Curran's feelings that the decisions had to be made at a global level. Now the argument holds that at that global level decisions should be made by the same small group of individuals running the RIRs, basically.</div></div></font></div></div></span></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div bgcolor="#ffffff" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font size="2" face="Arial"><div><div> </div></div></font></div></div></span></blockquote>Benson's proposals met with a timely end at the hands of the AC based on the</div><div>facts of the situation and the judgment of the various members of the AC.</div><div><br></div><div>While I cannot speak for the others, I can say that the reasons I voted to abandon</div><div>Benson's proposals included:</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>If Benson wanted to bring global policy, the policies needed to be submitted</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>as proposals for global policy and would need to be submitted to each of</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>the 5 regions. The proposals submitted made no mention of global policy</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>and did contain subject matter that would require global policy changes in</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>order to alter the terms of ICP-2 regarding the formation of new registries</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>for number resources.</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I believe that competing registries are contrary to the community interest and</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>represent bad policy. I have seen no evidence that having them would in any</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>way improve registration services, whois accuracy, or any other aspect of</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>internet number resource administration.</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Benson's proposals did not receive significant support from the community</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>on PPML and there was significant opposition to them from the community.</div><div><br></div><div>Benson petitioned the proposals and was not able to get 10 people from 10 different</div><div>organizations to support either of the petitions. If there is such wide community support</div><div>for this idea as you seem to perceive, why were there not 10 people willing to step up</div><div>and say so?</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div bgcolor="#ffffff" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font size="2" face="Arial"><div><div>You are right in saying there are no policies about how domain names are justified or acquired in the rules which apply to DNS registries.</div></div></font></div></div></span></blockquote><div><br></div>I'm glad you recognize that domain names are unregulated.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div bgcolor="#ffffff" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font size="2" face="Arial"><div><div>That's as it should be, and there is a burgeoning set of case law and trademark law that serves to answer those questions.</div></div></font></div></div></span></blockquote><div><br></div>The burgeoning set of case law and trademark law is:</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>An example of how regulators will step in when we fail.</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>The result of our failure to maintain the separation between domain names</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>and trademarks that should have been preserved from the early days of</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>internet development.</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>The direct result of caving to the wishes of WIPO instead of first considering</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>the best interests and desires of the wider internet community.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div bgcolor="#ffffff" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font size="2" face="Arial"><div><div>I put more trust in the collective brainpower of worldwide jurisprudence and centuries of commonlaw experience to decide these issues than a tiny cabal of individuals with a vested interest in maintaining their positions in the status quo. Let the DNS registries concentrate on uniqueness and adherence to law as it develops, let number registries concentrate on uniqueness and title.</div></div></font></div></div></span></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div bgcolor="#ffffff" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font size="2" face="Arial"><div><div> </div></div></font></div></div></span></blockquote>You keep using terms like "tiny cabal of individals" to describe a process open literally to</div><div>anyone who chooses to participate. I have tremendous difficulty understanding how you</div><div>can equate those two and it makes it very difficult to carry on a meaningful discussion of</div><div>the characteristics of the process when you insist on framing it that way.</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div bgcolor="#ffffff" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font size="2" face="Arial"><div><div>I think we understand your position on free markets, I am trying to avoid discussions of analogies far afield from current topics, so suffice it to say I disagree that the instances you reference resulted from activities in free markets.</div></div></font></div></div></span></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div bgcolor="#ffffff" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font size="2" face="Arial"><div><div> </div></div></font></div></div></span></blockquote>I'm all for free markets where they make sense. The distribution of number resources</div><div>is not one of the places where that is true. If you have so much faith in the collective</div><div>brainpower of worldwide jurisprudence and common law experience, then, you</div><div>must realize that even the ITU and NANPA have justified need requirements for</div><div>things like country codes and NPA numbers. These are examples of finite number</div><div>resources being administered in a manner contrary to a free market and the</div><div>recognition that free market administration would not serve the public interest</div><div>in those cases.</div><div><br></div><div>Why on earth would you consider the administration of IPv4 number resources to</div><div>be significantly better served by a market?</div><div><br></div><div>Owen</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div bgcolor="#ffffff" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font size="2" face="Arial"><div><div>Regards,</div><div> </div><div>Mike</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div></div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div></font></div><blockquote style="border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; "><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; ">----- Original Message -----</div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="owen@delong.com" href="mailto:owen@delong.com">Owen DeLong</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="mike@nationwideinc.com" href="mailto:mike@nationwideinc.com">Mike Burns</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="Daniel_Alexander@Cable.Comcast.com" href="mailto:Daniel_Alexander@Cable.Comcast.com">Alexander, Daniel</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="arin-ppml@arin.net" href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, May 02, 2011 6:48 PM</div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [arin-ppml] Accusation of fundamental conflictofinterest/IPaddress policy pitched directly to ICANN</div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On May 2, 2011, at 1:41 PM, Mike Burns wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Hi Dan,<br><br>The existence of competing registries does not imply a requirement on anybody to change, so your argument about expense to existing participants is invalid.<br><br></div></blockquote>Not true. The chaos and disruption posed by unregulated registries will</div><div>increase the costs to ARIN, ARIN members, and other participants in the</div><div>industry regardless of whether they change registries or not.</div><div> </div><div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div><div><font size="2" face="Arial"> </font></div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>And yes, the market will sort out bad actors. That's one thing free markets do.<br><br></div></blockquote>Right... The market sorted out Enron... Eventually. However, non of us in</div><div>California got our money back and we're all still paying higher electric</div><div>bills as a result.</div><div><br></div><div>The market sorted out the CMOs... Eventually. However, my house is now</div><div>worth 1/3rd of what it was worth and the new restrictive regulations on</div><div>refinancing prevent me from taking advantage of the new lower interest</div><div>rates due to my home being devalued too close to the amount I still owe</div><div>on it. Unfortunately, I wasn't irresponsible enough to be part of the cause</div><div>of this problem, so, as a good actor, I am not entitled to any of the relief</div><div>available from the government for the bad actors.</div><div><br></div><div>I think I've had enough of the way markets sort out bad actors for a while.</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>Nobody said anything about no oversight, to the contrary I have said the registries should work under the same framework as RIRs.<br><br></div></blockquote>The only oversight of the RIRs is their community processes and their</div><div>membership-elected boards. If you are OK with the other registries being</div><div>overseen by these same bodies, then, I'm not sure why you think they</div><div>would somehow be run differently from the existing RIRs.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>Just like all DNS registrars have to comply with rules setup to govern their behavior.<br>Before you can be a DNS registrar you have to comply with the rules, and maintain compliance.<br><br></div></blockquote>There are virtually no policies about how domain names are justified or</div><div>acquired in those rules. There are provisions for trademark disputes, but,</div><div>those are not applicable to IP addresses (unless you think that a</div><div>particular soft drink vendor should be automatically entitled to</div><div>the address 67.79.75.69).</div><div><br></div><div>Owen</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>It's true that I was being forward thinking about the additional services competing registries might offer, but my point is that those services would only be offered if there was a demand for them, if the private registries are to endure.<br><font class="Apple-style-span"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#144fae"><br></font></font></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><br>Regards,<br><br>Mike<br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander, Daniel" <<a href="mailto:Daniel_Alexander@Cable.Comcast.com">Daniel_Alexander@Cable.Comcast.com</a>><br>To: "Mike Burns" <<a href="mailto:mike@nationwideinc.com">mike@nationwideinc.com</a>>; <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 4:30 PM<br>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Accusation of fundamental conflictofinterest/IPaddress policy pitched directly to ICANN<br><br><br>Mike,<br><br>While I can only speak for myself, I can attempt to answer your question<br>of what may perturb some people. You make several very large assumptions<br>in your claims, none of which were captured in the opt-in, opt-out, or any<br>other proposals.<br><br>You speak of title insurance, legal teams, and other items, ensuring that<br>a competitive registry will provide better services than a community<br>defined RIR. The problem is none of this is defined or required in any<br>suggested framework. While some may provide these services, many may not,<br>and there are no mechanisms to protect the ISP's or end users who rely on<br>these services.<br><br>While many advocates will quickly reply that the market will sort these<br>bad actors out, it will be done at the expense of the people who currently<br>rely on these RIR provided services at a fraction of the cost. If<br>competitive registries are created without oversight, the burden and<br>expense of validating registration records will be shifted to the very<br>people who are supposed to benefit from this new model.<br><br>This begs the question from some as to what purpose a commercial registry<br>would serve other than to make money.<br><br>My opinion only.<br>Dan Alexander<br><br><br><br><br>On 5/2/11 3:33 PM, "Mike Burns" <<a href="mailto:mike@nationwideinc.com">mike@nationwideinc.com</a>> wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">But what is it about ARIN that is broken? What exactly do you think<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">needs<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">to be fixed?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">The only thing I've gotten out of the discussions so far is that some<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">people think there is money to be made by providing IPv4 addresses based<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">on<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">willingness and ability to pay rather than ARIN's current >demonstrated<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">need policies.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Why is it to my benefit if someone else makes money? Particularly if it<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">perturbs the current mechanisms in a way that costs me money?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Keith Hare<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Hi Keith,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">What is broken about ARIN is that scandalously large numbers of netblocks<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">do<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">not have valid POCs, for example. The stewardship of Whois leaves a lot<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">be desired.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Competitive pressures would help to finally decide who controls these<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">addresses and allow them to be transferred to those who would pay for<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">them.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Network operators don't really have much of a choice in accessing Whois<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">information to determine the rights to advertise addresses, and competive<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">registries.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">In my experience they rely on attestation and review of proferred<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">chain-of-custody docs when determining who can advertise which addresses,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">when confronted with inconsistencies with whois.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">A competitive registry with a title insurance component will give network<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">operators more security when deciding questionable cases.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">What is broken about ARIN is that their transfer policies are more<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">restrictive than APNICs, and that will cause a flow of addresses out of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">ARIN<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">and into APNIC.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">A competitive registry could presumably have a different transfer policy,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">as<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">APNICs differs from ARINs.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">What is broken about ARIN is that ARIN has professed no statutory control<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">over legacy addresses in the Plzak declaration in the Kremen case, and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">yet<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">attempts to control the registration of legacy resources.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">With a private registry, the address rights holders can choose to opt-out<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">ARIN's dictats and choose their registry voluntarily.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I don't see how the creation of a private registry will perturb the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">current<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">mechanisms in a way that costs you money, could you share why you feel<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">that<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">way?<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Regards,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Mike Burns<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">PPML<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Please contact<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>if you experience any issues.<br></blockquote><br>_______________________________________________<br>PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>Please contact<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>if you experience any issues.<br></div></blockquote></div><br></blockquote></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></blockquote></div><br></body></html>