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<div>Guys,</div>
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<div>I'm watching this very closely as I will be wanting to propose a similar proposal to APNIC 32 coming up in August/September.</div>
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...Skeeve</p>
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Skeeve Stevens, CEO - eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists</p>
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<div>On 26/04/11 6:29 PM, "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div>In message <<a href="mailto:1FF55C04-0F29-41D3-8B78-2BDE71FAE0C6@arin.net">1FF55C04-0F29-41D3-8B78-2BDE71FAE0C6@arin.net</a>>,
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<div>John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net">jcurran@arin.net</a>> wrote:</div>
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<blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div>On Apr 25, 2011, at 7:04 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:</div>
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<blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div>P.P.S. For the benefit of everyone who will carp if I do not propose</div>
<div>some new policy in each and every posting I make to this list, here is</div>
<div>a proposed new policy:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> If any legal entity (person, LLC, corporation, or whatever) is caught</div>
<div> red-handed on two or more different occasions hijacking either ASNs</div>
<div> or IP space which has not been assigned to the entity in question, th=</div>
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<div>en</div>
<blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div> ARIN shall immediately revoke any and all number assignments it has</div>
<div> made to said entity, and said entity will henceforth be forever and</div>
<div> permanently banned from obtaining, from ARIN, any new number resource=</div>
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<div>s</div>
<blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div> whatsoever.</div>
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<div>That's my proposal and I'm sticking to it.</div>
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<div>Ron - If you want to propose this...</div>
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<div>I guess that you and I are working from different definitions of the word</div>
<div>``propose''.</div>
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<div>Not only did I _want_ to propose it, I was under the impression that I</div>
<div>actually _had_ proposed it.</div>
<div><br>
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<div>Admittedly, my proposal lacked fancy numbered headings, sub-headings,</div>
<div>Chapter titles, a table of figures (with circles & arrows on the back)</div>
<div>and all that fancy stuff, but it's still a proposal.</div>
<div><br>
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<blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div>please include one more paragraph that better defines "caught hijacking"...</div>
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<div>As you wish...</div>
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<div>"Caught hijacking" for IP address blocks means that the legal entity in</div>
<div>question is itself demonstratably announcing route(s) to the IP address</div>
<div>block in question AND that no evidence is proffered or forthcoming, within</div>
<div>a reasonably time frame (e.g. 1 week) which would reasonably support a</div>
<div>claim that either:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> (a) the IP block in question is currently assigned to the legal entity in</div>
<div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>question, or else</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> (b) that the legal entity to which the block(s) were actually assigned had</div>
<div> given its explicit consent to the legal entity that is actually</div>
<div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>announcing routes to the block(s) in question to make or perform</div>
<div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>such announcement(s).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"Caught hijacking" for an ASNs means that the legal entity in question is</div>
<div>itself demonstratably announcing one or more routes via the ASN in question</div>
<div>AND that no evidence is proffered or forthcoming, within a reasonably time</div>
<div>frame (e.g. 1 week) which would reasonably support a claim that either</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> (a) the ASN in question is currently assigned to the legal entity in</div>
<div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>question, or else</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> (b) that the legal entity to which the ASN was actually assigned had</div>
<div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>given its explicit consent to the legal entity that is actually</div>
<div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>announcing routes via the ASN in question to make or perform such</div>
<div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>announcement(s).</div>
<div><br>
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<blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div>That will significantly aid in implementation.</div>
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</div>
<div>I can see how that might be the case, yes.</div>
<div><br>
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<blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div>Note that the above proposal, if adopted, would still not result in ARIN</div>
<div>becoming in any sense the "router police".</div>
</blockquote>
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<div>See above.</div>
</blockquote>
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<div>ARIN does not now, and would not, under this proposal, have its hands on the</div>
<div>proverbial switches, knobs, and dials of any routers anywhere. As now, it</div>
<div>could not tell anybody what to route or conversely what not to. (The</div>
<div>community quite clearly opposes any such control on ARINs part and this</div>
<div>proposal would do nothing to change the fact that ARIN does not own or</div>
<div>operate any routers, other than its on in-house ones.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Under this proposal however, ARIN would be empowered to actually observe,</div>
<div>take note of, and act upon what is really going on out here, but only in-</div>
<div>sofar as its data base and its present and future allocations are concerned</div>
<div>(just as currently).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>rfg</div>
<div>_______________________________________________</div>
<div>PPML</div>
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