<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>On Apr 8, 2011, at 12:42 PM, Matthew Kaufman wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>On Apr 8, 2011, at 12:09 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On Apr 7, 2011, at 2:56 PM, ARIN wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">ARIN-prop-139 No reassignment without network service<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Proposal Originator: Owen DeLong<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Proposal Version: 1<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">...<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that assigns address space<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">exclusively to the users of the network services that it provides. LIRs<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">are Network Service Providers (ISPs or NSPs), whose customers may<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">include end users and/or other ISPs/NSPs.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#540000"><br></font></blockquote>Please define where I have missed my intent so I can better clarify it.<br><br></div></blockquote><br></div><div>Just say "assigns address space to networks directly connected through a layer 2 circuit" or something. "users of the network services it provides" is exactly as vague as things are now.</div><div><br></div><div>Can I just give them a shell account or a POP email account and they're a "user of the network services"? Totally unclear.</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote>Neither of those is network service. Those are shell and email services possibly provided over a</div><div>network, but, they are not the provision of network services. If you would like, I can happily</div><div>define network services in section 2 of the NRPM as being the service of actually delivering</div><div>packets not necessarily related to the provision of a particular application, but, really, is</div><div>that actually necessary? Are you really so confused by the meaning of the term network</div><div>services?</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>If you want to explicitly require or prohibit something, come out and say it.</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote>In general, I don't want to explicitly require or prohibit anything beyond the provision of</div><div>address space without the provision of network services. I believe that's what I came</div><div>out and said, so, I'm still confused as to where you see a disconnect between what</div><div>I said and what I meant. Yes, you produced a nice straw man for a semi-plausible</div><div>misinterpretation of the term network services. I'm not opposed to adding the</div><div>clarification of that term to the policy if you feel it is necessary... Something like:</div><div><br></div><div>Add to section 2:</div><div><br></div><div>2.12<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>The term network services shall mean the delivery of arbitrary packets</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>based on the destination prefix and not necessarily related to any</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>particular application or higher-layer service. Examples would include</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>IP routing, IP transit, network connectivity, etc.</div><div><br></div><div>Owen</div><div><br></div></body></html>