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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>How about this?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that assigns address space<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>exclusively to the down-stream consumer of the Network connectivity services that it provides. LIRs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>are Network Service Providers (ISPs or NSPs), whose customers may<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>include end users and/or other ISPs/NSPs<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Rodgers <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Owen DeLong<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 08, 2011 3:49 PM<br><b>To:</b> Matthew Kaufman<br><b>Cc:</b> arin-ppml@arin.net List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-prop-139 No reassignment without network service<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Apr 8, 2011, at 12:42 PM, Matthew Kaufman wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Apr 8, 2011, at 12:09 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>On Apr 7, 2011, at 2:56 PM, ARIN wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>ARIN-prop-139 No reassignment without network service<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Proposal Originator: Owen DeLong<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Proposal Version: 1<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>...<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that assigns address space<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>exclusively to the users of the network services that it provides. LIRs<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>are Network Service Providers (ISPs or NSPs), whose customers may<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>include end users and/or other ISPs/NSPs.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Please define where I have missed my intent so I can better clarify it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Just say "assigns address space to networks directly connected through a layer 2 circuit" or something. "users of the network services it provides" is exactly as vague as things are now.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Can I just give them a shell account or a POP email account and they're a "user of the network services"? Totally unclear.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>Neither of those is network service. Those are shell and email services possibly provided over a<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>network, but, they are not the provision of network services. If you would like, I can happily<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>define network services in section 2 of the NRPM as being the service of actually delivering<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>packets not necessarily related to the provision of a particular application, but, really, is<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>that actually necessary? Are you really so confused by the meaning of the term network<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>services?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>If you want to explicitly require or prohibit something, come out and say it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal>In general, I don't want to explicitly require or prohibit anything beyond the provision of<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>address space without the provision of network services. I believe that's what I came<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>out and said, so, I'm still confused as to where you see a disconnect between what<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I said and what I meant. Yes, you produced a nice straw man for a semi-plausible<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>misinterpretation of the term network services. I'm not opposed to adding the<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>clarification of that term to the policy if you feel it is necessary... Something like:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Add to section 2:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>2.12<span class=apple-tab-span> </span>The term network services shall mean the delivery of arbitrary packets<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>based on the destination prefix and not necessarily related to any<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>particular application or higher-layer service. Examples would include<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>IP routing, IP transit, network connectivity, etc.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Owen<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>