<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Milton -</div><div><br></div><div> Yes, we update the registry automatically as part of the transfer process.<br><br>/John</div><div><br>On Nov 3, 2010, at 2:21 PM, Milton L Mueller <<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu">mueller@syr.edu</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"; color:#993366">ARIN can maintain the integrity of the registration data by allowing
the parties who transfer legacy resources to update their entry in WHOIS. Very
simple. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"; color:#993366"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"; color:#993366">--MM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"; color:#993366"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>
[mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Aaron Wendel<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 02, 2010 7:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy 2010-10 (Global Proposal):
GlobalPolicy for IPv4 Allocations by the IANA Post Exhaustion - Last Call
(textrevised)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I took
John’s comments here:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">“The only
they can't do is transfer resources outside of the policies, as ARIN has to
maintain the registration database in accordance with the community policies as
adopted.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">To mean that ARIN would not update the registration database
with information for a new org if legacy space was transferred outside of the
ARIN rules.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">My question about that is what happens to the integrity of the
registration data when Bob, who obtained a /16 back in 1990, decides to sell it
off in /24s to 256 different people? Bob’s given all those people LOAs
with their new /24s so they have no issues getting them routed but ARIN refuses
to change the registration. Bob’s not in control of those blocks anymore
and doesn’t care to answer questions about them and the “community” has no way
of knowing who has those blocks and how to contact them.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Ted is correct. The community has given ARIN the mandate
to hold out the carrot in the form of the LRSA but no one seems to want to give
ARIN a stick. I would assume that’s because the majority of the active
ARIN members, and by active I mean ones that participate on the list or at
meetings, are legacy holders themselves.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">If ARIN, whose primary job is to maintain the registration data,
can’t insure the integrity of that registration data any more then what’s the
point? Once one legacy holder kicks them in the groin and they don’t
fight back it’ll be a feeding frenzy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">I think the responsible thing for the community to do would be
to give ARIN the stick they need.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Aaron<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a> [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ted
Mittelstaedt<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 02, 2010 5:38 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy 2010-10 (Global Proposal):
GlobalPolicy for IPv4 Allocations by the IANA Post Exhaustion - Last Call
(textrevised)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt">On 11/2/2010 2:42 PM, John Curran wrote:<br>
> On Nov 2, 2010, at 2:57 PM, Mike Burns wrote:<br>
><br>
>> John,<br>
>><br>
>> How was the registration database maintained in accordance with
community<br>
>> policies and yet the ORG and POC information for some legacy records
has<br>
>> been changed?<br>
><br>
> Organizations with legacy address blocks may update their point of contact<br>
> information (in fact, they can now do it online via ARIN Online, probably<br>
> why we have more than 20,000 ARIN Online accounts... :-) Remember,
we are<br>
> actively requesting all organizations to update their Point of Contact
(POC)<br>
> information via electronic reminders. More information about this
program<br>
> and its progress was given at the Atlanta meeting:<br>
> <<a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/reports/ARIN_XXV/PDF/Monday/Nobile_POC_Validation.pdf"><a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/reports/ARIN_XXV/PDF/Monday/Nobile_POC_Validation.pdf">https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/reports/ARIN_XXV/PDF/Monday/Nobile_POC_Validation.pdf</a></a>><br>
><br>
>> Are we to assume by your statements that the 16/8 block HAS to have an
LSRA<br>
><br>
>> signed, since the original recipients of this legacy block are no
longer<br>
>> listed in the registration database?<br>
>> And, if this is the case, can we assume that justification was
provided per<br>
>> NRPM 8.2?<br>
><br>
<br>
Mike, the problem with the Legacy holders is that the ARIN community has<br>
never agreed to exert the RIR's authority over them. There are many<br>
historical reasons (some valid, some not) for this, but the Legacy<br>
holders aren't stupid. They know that until the community unites<br>
against them and tells them all to sign an LSRA and thus come under<br>
obligation to the NRPM and it's justification requirements, (or face the<br>
whois database being purged of their records) that they<br>
can do whatever the hell they want. Including changing the POC to<br>
some other org, essentially transferring the block to someone else.<br>
John Curran is just trying to say this in a nice fashion to you. But<br>
truthfully he has absolutely no lever over the non-LRSA Legacy holders,<br>
because the one lever he can use, the community won't give to ARIN.<br>
<br>
I frankly think that the situation now is more of a fairness thing,<br>
it is grossly unfair to the LRSA signatories for some of their peers<br>
to to continue to flout the intent of the LRSA and ignore it. I do<br>
not understand why the RSA holders unite against the Legacy holders<br>
and I -definitely- don't understand why the LRSA signatories unite<br>
against the non-LRSA Legacy holders, but until that happens, nothing<br>
is going to change.<br>
<br>
Ted<br>
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