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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
color:#1F497D'>_<i>Whose</i>_ transfer process? ;-)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John Curran
[mailto:jcurran@arin.net] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 03, 2010 5:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Milton L Mueller<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Aaron Wendel; arin-ppml@arin.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy 2010-10 (Global Proposal):
GlobalPolicy for IPv4 Allocations by the IANA Post Exhaustion - Last Call
(textrevised)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Milton -<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> Yes, we update the registry automatically
as part of the transfer process.<br>
<br>
/John<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
On Nov 3, 2010, at 2:21 PM, Milton L Mueller <<a
href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu">mueller@syr.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>ARIN can
maintain the integrity of the registration data by allowing the parties who
transfer legacy resources to update their entry in WHOIS. Very simple. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>--MM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>
[mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Aaron Wendel<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 02, 2010 7:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy 2010-10 (Global Proposal):
GlobalPolicy for IPv4 Allocations by the IANA Post Exhaustion - Last Call
(textrevised)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I took John’s comments here:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>“The only they can't do is transfer
resources outside of the policies, as ARIN has to maintain the registration
database in accordance with the community policies as adopted.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>To
mean that ARIN would not update the registration database with information for
a new org if legacy space was transferred outside of the ARIN rules.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>My
question about that is what happens to the integrity of the registration data
when Bob, who obtained a /16 back in 1990, decides to sell it off in /24s to
256 different people? Bob’s given all those people LOAs with their new
/24s so they have no issues getting them routed but ARIN refuses to change the
registration. Bob’s not in control of those blocks anymore and doesn’t
care to answer questions about them and the “community” has no way of knowing
who has those blocks and how to contact them.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ted
is correct. The community has given ARIN the mandate to hold out the
carrot in the form of the LRSA but no one seems to want to give ARIN a
stick. I would assume that’s because the majority of the active ARIN
members, and by active I mean ones that participate on the list or at meetings,
are legacy holders themselves.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If
ARIN, whose primary job is to maintain the registration data, can’t insure the
integrity of that registration data any more then what’s the point? Once
one legacy holder kicks them in the groin and they don’t fight back it’ll be a
feeding frenzy.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I
think the responsible thing for the community to do would be to give ARIN the
stick they need.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Aaron</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>
[mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ted Mittelstaedt<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 02, 2010 5:38 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy 2010-10 (Global Proposal):
GlobalPolicy for IPv4 Allocations by the IANA Post Exhaustion - Last Call
(textrevised)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>On 11/2/2010 2:42 PM, John Curran wrote:<br>
> On Nov 2, 2010, at 2:57 PM, Mike Burns wrote:<br>
><br>
>> John,<br>
>><br>
>> How was the registration database maintained in accordance with
community<br>
>> policies and yet the ORG and POC information for some legacy records
has<br>
>> been changed?<br>
><br>
> Organizations with legacy address blocks may update their point of contact<br>
> information (in fact, they can now do it online via ARIN Online, probably<br>
> why we have more than 20,000 ARIN Online accounts... :-) Remember,
we are<br>
> actively requesting all organizations to update their Point of Contact
(POC)<br>
> information via electronic reminders. More information about this
program<br>
> and its progress was given at the Atlanta meeting:<br>
> <<a
href="https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/reports/ARIN_XXV/PDF/Monday/Nobile_POC_Validation.pdf">https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/reports/ARIN_XXV/PDF/Monday/Nobile_POC_Validation.pdf</a>><br>
><br>
>> Are we to assume by your statements that the 16/8 block HAS to have an
LSRA<br>
><br>
>> signed, since the original recipients of this legacy block are no
longer<br>
>> listed in the registration database?<br>
>> And, if this is the case, can we assume that justification was
provided per<br>
>> NRPM 8.2?<br>
><br>
<br>
Mike, the problem with the Legacy holders is that the ARIN community has<br>
never agreed to exert the RIR's authority over them. There are many<br>
historical reasons (some valid, some not) for this, but the Legacy<br>
holders aren't stupid. They know that until the community unites<br>
against them and tells them all to sign an LSRA and thus come under<br>
obligation to the NRPM and it's justification requirements, (or face the<br>
whois database being purged of their records) that they<br>
can do whatever the hell they want. Including changing the POC to<br>
some other org, essentially transferring the block to someone else.<br>
John Curran is just trying to say this in a nice fashion to you. But<br>
truthfully he has absolutely no lever over the non-LRSA Legacy holders,<br>
because the one lever he can use, the community won't give to ARIN.<br>
<br>
I frankly think that the situation now is more of a fairness thing,<br>
it is grossly unfair to the LRSA signatories for some of their peers<br>
to to continue to flout the intent of the LRSA and ignore it. I do<br>
not understand why the RSA holders unite against the Legacy holders<br>
and I -definitely- don't understand why the LRSA signatories unite<br>
against the non-LRSA Legacy holders, but until that happens, nothing<br>
is going to change.<br>
<br>
Ted<br>
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PPML<br>
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<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>
PPML<br>
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