<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; "> "The customer's actual information must be provided to ARIN <span class="Apple-style-span" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 102);">on request</span> and will be held in the strictest confidence."</span><div>
<font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse;">The wording of 2010-3: I think that the "on request" should be a mandatory requirement. ARIN should not have to request it.</span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse;">RD</span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse;"><br></span></font><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<br>
Draft Policy 2010-3<br>
Customer Confidentiality<br>
<br>
Draft Policy 2010-3 comes from the successful petition of "Policy<br>
Proposal 95: Customer Confidentiality." The draft policy is being posted<br>
for adoption discussion on the PPML and at the Public Policy Meeting in<br>
Toronto in April. The text of this draft policy is under the control of<br>
the petitioner, Aaron Wendel, until the conclusion of the Public Policy<br>
Meeting.<br>
<br>
Draft Policy 2010-3 is below and can be found at:<br>
<a href="https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2010_3.html" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2010_3.html</a><br>
<br>
You are encouraged to discuss Draft Policy 2010-3 on the PPML prior to<br>
the April Public Policy Meeting. Both the discussion on the list and<br>
at the meeting will be used by the ARIN Advisory Council to determine<br>
the community consensus for adopting this as policy.<br>
<br>
The ARIN Policy Development Process can be found at:<br>
<a href="https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html</a><br>
<br>
Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at:<br>
<a href="https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html</a><br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Member Services<br>
American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)<br>
<br>
<br>
## * ##<br>
<br>
<br>
Draft Policy 2010-3<br>
Customer Confidentiality<br>
<br>
Version/Date: 2 February 2010<br>
<br>
Policy statement:<br>
<br>
ISPs may choose to enter the customer's name along with the ISP's<br>
address and phone number in reassignments and reallocations in lieu of<br>
the customer's address and phone number. The customer's actual<br>
information must be provided to ARIN on request and will be held in the<br>
strictest confidence.<br>
<br>
Rationale:<br>
<br>
Version 2.0 clarifies the need for the customer name to remain in the<br>
SWIP and RWHOIS information.<br>
<br>
Customer contact lists are one of the most proprietary and confidential<br>
pieces of information in any business. The requirements for ISPs to<br>
publish those lists via SWIP or RWHOIS runs contrary to good business<br>
practices and invites competitors and others to solicit both individuals<br>
and companies receiving reassignments and sub allocations from upstream<br>
providers.<br>
<br>
Timetable for implementation: immediate<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:18:34 -0500<br>
From: William Herrin <<a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us">bill@herrin.us</a>><br>
To: Chris Engel <<a href="mailto:cengel@sponsordirect.com">cengel@sponsordirect.com</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Petition Underway - Policy Proposal 95<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:3c3e3fca1002021018t358ce58dy49b8044d9de355ad@mail.gmail.com">3c3e3fca1002021018t358ce58dy49b8044d9de355ad@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 12:52 PM, Chris Engel <<a href="mailto:cengel@sponsordirect.com">cengel@sponsordirect.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Bill Herrin wrote:<br>
>> I have issues with Joe of the bot-infestation that<br>
>>his ISP is probably better geared to chase down<br>
>>but I also have issues with Joe the /14-holding<br>
>>florist that I want to discuss with Joe directly."<br>
><br>
> That's great...but I'm not sure how exactly having<br>
>Joe's contact info really helps you determine<br>
>whether his /14 is justified?<br>
<br>
Chris,<br>
<br>
If Joe, allegedly assigned a /14 from his ISP, is a neighborhood<br>
florist and he responds "What's the Internet?" then my audit is<br>
basically done and it's time to report the ISP's fraud to ARIN.<br>
<br>
If his reasons for the /14 are moderately plausible and I get the same<br>
result with the other half-dozen suspicious looking assignments then<br>
I'm basically done as well, though for the opposite reason.<br>
<br>
<br>
The problem is: Joe's /14 assignment can't look suspicious or look any<br>
other way if it's public listing is permissibly redacted to "ISP<br>
Customer."<br>
<br>
<br>
There are, of course, other values to an administrative contact. You<br>
are, for example, not a common carrier. If your customer is hiding<br>
behind your identity as an ISP, you could end up responsible for<br>
accepting legal notice on his behalf. Is your legal department staffed<br>
adequately to avoid missteps in that process that will get you sued by<br>
the complainant, your customer or both?<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Bill Herrin<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
William D. Herrin ................ <a href="mailto:herrin@dirtside.com">herrin@dirtside.com</a> <a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us">bill@herrin.us</a><br>
3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <<a href="http://bill.herrin.us/" target="_blank">http://bill.herrin.us/</a>><br>
Falls Church, VA 22042-3004<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:26:27 -0600<br>
From: Kevin Kargel <<a href="mailto:kkargel@polartel.com">kkargel@polartel.com</a>><br>
To: "'<a href="mailto:ppml@arin.net">ppml@arin.net</a>'" <<a href="mailto:ppml@arin.net">ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy 2010-3: Customer Confidentiality<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<8695009A81378E48879980039EEDAD28876D3FCB@MAIL1.polartel.local><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Now that the petition has moved forward I do have some further comments on this proposal.<br>
<br>
I do not think that ARIN is in the business of defending the secrecy of customer lists. Keeping your customers should be a matter of competitive pricing and quality of service, not sequestering your customers in a closet or keeping them in a walled garden. Free enterprise is part and parcel of doing business on the internet.<br>
<br>
Hiding community members from contact by prospective service offerings is not included anywhere in the ARIN mission statement that I could see.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 7<br>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:49:06 -0500<br>
From: John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net">jcurran@arin.net</a>><br>
To: William Herrin <<a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us">bill@herrin.us</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: [arin-ppml] Notes on the current ARIN Policy Development<br>
Process<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:DAE65501-DA5D-4005-AA85-A5EEFB1BFC97@arin.net">DAE65501-DA5D-4005-AA85-A5EEFB1BFC97@arin.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
On Feb 1, 2010, at 4:03 PM, William Herrin wrote:<br>
><br>
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 12:32 AM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> The AC was elected to help develop good, technically sound<br>
>> policy.<br>
><br>
> Owen,<br>
><br>
> The AC was elected first and foremost to be shepherds of the bottom-up<br>
> public-originated policy development process. Advising whether a<br>
> particular proposal is "good, technically sound policy" is supposed to<br>
> be the very last step, not the first. Moving it to the front violates,<br>
> disrupts and eventually destroys the bottom-up character of the<br>
> process.<br>
<br>
At the end of 2008, the ARIN Board of Trustees adopted an updated<br>
Policy Development Process (PDP) which gave ARIN Advisory Council<br>
more freedom in handling policy proposals. The revision to the PDP<br>
was made after presentation of the proposed changes in the Denver<br>
Public Policy Meeting in April 2008, and then after a public call<br>
for comments. You can view the full explanation of the changes here:<br>
<<a href="http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-announce/2008-April/000715.html" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-announce/2008-April/000715.html</a>><br>
<br>
The revised PDP places policy proposals and draft policies under the<br>
purview of the AC as opposed to the proposal submitter, and made clear<br>
that the AC has the authority edit/merge/abandon policy proposals as<br>
needed to come up with draft policies which fair and technically sound.<br>
The result of the AC's work then goes to the PPML and the Public Policy<br>
Meeting for consideration by the community (full process is available<br>
here: <<a href="https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html</a>>)<br>
<br>
This change was made to insure that draft policies are technically<br>
sound, not duplicative, and consistent with the policy framework.<br>
It is hoped that the AC output will be Draft Policies which are<br>
strong candidates for adoption and will gain community support as<br>
a result during the PPML and Public Policy Meeting discussion.<br>
<br>
It was recognized that this revision to the PDP places significant<br>
control in the hands of the ARIN AC, and hence the petition process<br>
was made prominent in the revised PDP to allow any AC action to be<br>
petitioned via only 10 members of the community. This is a very<br>
low threshold intentionally, so that community could readily bring<br>
a matter to the PPML and next Public Policy Meeting. It does not<br>
indicate that the AC failed in any manner, but only that an action<br>
taken by the AC may warrant further consideration. As this is the<br>
first time we're exercising this process, we also taking notes as<br>
to the process itself in addition to the results.<br>
<br>
The Policy Development process is not static, and there's already<br>
some thought that we should look at another update based on the<br>
experiences and lessons learned with the new PDP to date. If<br>
there are specific suggestions that people have which they have<br>
not already posted, you may send them to me directly at any time.<br>
Of course, there will also be a similar community presentation<br>
of any revised PDP and that will also offer another opportunity<br>
to provide feedback in a public manner.<br>
<br>
I post this message to PPML in order to make sure that everyone<br>
is aware of these changes, and encourage folks to continue with<br>
the important discussions of the policy proposals and drafts<br>
which are before us.<br>
<br>
Thanks!<br>
/John<br>
<br>
John Curran<br>
President and CEO<br>
ARIN<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 8<br>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:53:13 -0600<br>
From: Kevin Kargel <<a href="mailto:kkargel@polartel.com">kkargel@polartel.com</a>><br>
To: 'William Herrin' <<a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us">bill@herrin.us</a>>, 'Chris Engel'<br>
<<a href="mailto:cengel@sponsordirect.com">cengel@sponsordirect.com</a>><br>
Cc: "'<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>'" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Petition Underway - Policy Proposal 95<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<8695009A81378E48879980039EEDAD28876D3FCC@MAIL1.polartel.local><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
> There are, of course, other values to an administrative contact. You<br>
> are, for example, not a common carrier. If your customer is hiding<br>
> behind your identity as an ISP, you could end up responsible for<br>
> accepting legal notice on his behalf. Is your legal department staffed<br>
> adequately to avoid missteps in that process that will get you sued by<br>
> the complainant, your customer or both?<br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
> Bill Herrin<br>
<br>
<br>
One current and active example of this is the flurry of Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA) activity. While there are protections for ISP's under Title II (OCILLA) of that act it *could* be interpreted by the provisions in this act that (as Bill inferred) if you are sequestering your customer then you are assuming the responsibility and/or liability under DMCA. At the very least by that act you are assuming the responsibility to proxy actionable notices to your customer, and if you fail in that responsibility you may assume liabilities.<br>
<br>
This is for better legal minds than mine to determine, but it makes me wonder.<br>
<br>
IANAL (I AM NOT A LAWYER)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<br>
End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 56, Issue 10<br>
*****************************************<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Rudi Daniel<br>e Business Consultant<br><a href="http://www.svgpso.org">http://www.svgpso.org</a><br><a href="http://oecstimes.wordpress.com">http://oecstimes.wordpress.com</a><br>
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” - Bertrand Russell<br>
</div>