<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>Why, practically, should holding 9 IP's rather then 7 change the requirements for that burden<br><br></div></blockquote>Because you have to draw the line somewhere, and, 8 is where the line is currently drawn in IPv4.</div><div><br></div><div>Realistically, <=8 IPs covers the vast majority of residential IPv4 needs and a great many small</div><div>businesses as well. When you start using more than 8 globally unique IPv4 addresses, the likelihood</div><div>that you are running a substantial network and/or publicly reachable servers, etc. goes up dramatically.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>In terms of "checking up on competitors"..... A large part of justification for IP space also has to do with expected upcoming projects.... do you propose that ARIN should also publish organizations future business plans (which would normally be covered by NDA's) for their competitors to "check up" on them as well?<br><br></div></blockquote>Clearly there are limits and points of diminishing return. Disclosing allocations of non-trivial amounts</div><div>of IP resources to the community is an entirely reasonable thing and provides a good measure of</div><div>check and balance capability without being overly burdensome or invasive.</div><div><br></div><div>Publishing NDA information about future business plans is obviously both invasive and unlikely to</div><div>significantly improve the audit capabilities in question.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>ARIN, who has no vested interest in which ISP an individual customer uses already has the capacity to investigate fraud. Why would you vest that responsibility with competitor(s) who would have a vested interest in throwing as many hurdles in front of their competition as possible and who may have serious motivation to misuse such information?<br><br></div></blockquote>ARIN has very limited resources to identify and investigate fraud. Nobody is vesting competitors with responsibility to</div><div>investigate fraud, but, some of us are saying that public disclosure of IP number resource distribution does aid in</div><div>additional public scrutiny which can provide better input to help ARIN target their resources in a manner to provide</div><div>the greatest public benefit.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>Which would be more likely an ISP using such information to justify an honest complaint of fraud on the part of a competitor or to create a targeted sales list to try to steal the competitors customers? ARIN's staff has both the capacity and the responsibility to investigate fraud as well as the means for doing something about it and lacks any motivation to use that information for other purposes. An ISP has little real capacity or responsibility to investigate a competitor and lacks the tools to do anything about it other then to ask ARIN to investigate....but has a great deal of motivation to use it for other purposes, does it not?<br><br></div></blockquote>The former is more likely. The latter is a violation of the WHOIS AUP.</div><div><br></div><div>Being able to use the whois data for an ISPs customers as a contrast with information from other sources</div><div>can, in many cases, significantly improve the quality of the fraud reports ARIN receives.</div><div><br></div><div>Owen</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#144FAE"><br></font></font></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div>Christopher Engel<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href="mailto:wherrin@gmail.com">wherrin@gmail.com</a> [mailto:wherrin@gmail.com] On Behalf Of William Herrin<br>Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:58 PM<br>To: Chris Engel<br>Cc: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] (no subject)<br><br><br>On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Chris Engel <<a href="mailto:cengel@sponsordirect.com">cengel@sponsordirect.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">I mean how is it neccesary/useful for some-one to know<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">that Block X is owned by ACME Corp at 123 South Main<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Street, if the entity who is ACTUALY responsible for handling technical<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">issues for them is Computer Consultants, Inc ?<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I would think that the information that would be required<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">to address the issue would be...<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">IP Address #: x.x.x.x<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Tech Contact E-mail: <a href="mailto:abuse@ComputerConsultants.com">abuse@ComputerConsultants.com</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Tech Contact Phone: 1-555-555-5555<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Why is there a need to publish anything more then that?<br></blockquote><br>So you can serve them with legal papers.<br><br>So that an ISP who suspects its competitor of fraud can spot-check the competitor's SWIP records against the local business listings and give ARIN a real complaint.<br><br><br><br>--<br><br>William D. Herrin ................ <a href="mailto:herrin@dirtside.com">herrin@dirtside.com</a> <a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us">bill@herrin.us</a> 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <<a href="http://bill.herrin.us/">http://bill.herrin.us/</a>> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004<br>_______________________________________________<br>PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>Please contact info@arin.net if you experience any issues.<br></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>