<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"><div>I have discussed IPv6 with people from most big ISPs, including telcos, and essentially all of them are planning for IPv6. None of them believes that their IPv4 size will sustain them through the depletion of unassigned IPv4. Admittedly, some are not as far along as they'd like, either in planning or in capital spending.<br><br>I don't understand what ASN database you mean, and I don't know how ARIN and ICANN could effect a sunset. Could you suggest details?<br><br>What problems do you see with BGP with IPv6? It might be appropriate to raise them at the IRTF's Routing Research Group, or in one of the IETF's Routing Area WGs. (Internet search to find them)<br><br>What do you want ARIN to "open back up"? Do you think the requirements for an IPv6
allocation or 32-bit ASN are too strict? What would you propose?<br><br>Lee<br><br></div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> "Davey, George" <george@dmu.edu><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm@ipinc.net><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> "ppml@arin.net" <ppml@arin.net><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, May 1, 2009 1:44:45 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [arin-ppml] Effect of ARIN's Letters<br></font><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The interesting thing is that the big ISPs do not want IPV6
because once the IPV4 addresses run out, they have a monopoly and they love monopolies.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The telcos are expressing this desire by their apparent
reluctance to IPV6.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">There is also the expense factor and the non-desire of customers
to care about IPV anything. They just want web pages to come up and IPV6
inhibits not helps.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The thing for ARIN and ICANN need to do is to set a sunset date
by which IPV4 IPs are obsolete and by which the ASN database for them will be
purged.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Problem is there is no ASN to replace them and that is the flaw
in the IPV6 implementational logic.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">IPv4 will persist until such time.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hopefully they can come up with BGP6 for IPV6 that will host
millions of ISPs not just 65,535, and set a sunset date for BGP4 and the
current ASN numbers associated with them.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">This will force a “Gold Rush” and if ARIN was smart
instead of just a steward (whatever that is) they would open it back up just
like it was 1992 all over again.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">A whole new crop of ISPs would take part in the Gold Rush.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Until then I will grasp my IPV4 blocks until they pry them from
my cold dead hands.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><img id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:1.4256616289@web63302.mail.re1.yahoo.com" alt="< Des Moines University - Osteopathic Medical Center >" width="248" height="40"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> <br>
</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">George Davey, B.S. MCSE<br>
<i>Network Administrator</i><br>
3200 Grand Avenue<br>
Des Moines, IA 50312<br>
515.271.1544<br>
FAX 515.271.7063</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">CELL 515.480.1605<br>
George.Davey@dmu.edu<br>
<a target="_blank" href="http://www.dmu.edu">www.dmu.edu</a></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">
arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ted
Mittelstaedt<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 01, 2009 12:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond'; ppml@arin.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Effect of ARIN's Letters</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">The problem is what do your customers want?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">As a smaller ISP we can't set policy on the Internet. We
aren't bringing customers onboard at the</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">rate of hundreds a day where we can afford to scrape the 2-3
annoying and demanding ones off our</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">shoes. We are concerned about losing even a single customer -
it won't break us, but we aren't</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">complacent about it either.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">As long as there's customers on the Internet that can demand and
get routable IPv4 addresses from</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">our competitors, we will have to offer IPv4. We don't have
the luxury of a Verizon or a Qwest to be</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">able to look that customer in the eye and say "NO, and nobody
else is going to give you one either"</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">and have the customer curse and swear at us but, due to cut-rate
pricing or contracts, other bundling and</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">marketing stuff that allows us to lock in that customer, be able to
force our will on them.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">And before you start saying that these large ISPs can't force
customers to do anything, I see it</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">happening all the time. All they have to do is cut their
monthly rate below ours - and it doesn't</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">take much - and there's a lot of customers out there who will do
whatever they tell them to. We have</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">even lost customers to the big guys who ended up paying MORE to the
big guys - but went to them</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">solely because they got a unified telephone/internet bill from
a single provider, and they had some</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">accountant 2000 miles away paying the bill who wanted it that way.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">SO, we will be more than happy to 'reclaim and share those
crumbs". It will keep us alive for</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">a long enough time for the big guys to start playing hardball with
their customers and forcing</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">them to IPv6. Once the big guys start telling their customers
NO (or more likely that it will</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">cost them plenty) to get IPv4, then we will be able to raise prices
or do whatever it takes to make</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">our customers go to IPv6 as well.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">Ted</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";"> arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net
[mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Olivier MJ
Crepin-Leblond<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 01, 2009 12:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> ppml@arin.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Effect of ARIN's Letters</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">The
good news is that we're discussing this on the ARIN list, rather than debating
policies about IPv4 reclaiming which I personally equate to reclaiming and
sharing of crumbs. Nobody's ever survived on crumbs that size.</span></p>
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