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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ted,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I’m not really sure that playing the
name that provider game is going to achieve anything. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I can tell you that this is not a single
special interest and affects over a dozen IX’s. There may only be
one IX publicly discussing the issue, but rest assured that a lot of the others
know about this and are concerned.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I’m not privy to the discussions
that have occurred between the IX’s and the provider in question. I
am hoping that there have been some, and that some diplomacy has been
attempted. Regardless of if contact has been made or not, the fact
remains that the possibility I discussed in my last post certainly exists.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>To clarify, you are correct, to my
knowledge no IX has been notified to vacate the space at this
point. To Leo’s point, the IX’s have 10 months and probably
do have enough time to request, receive and renumber into a PI from ARIN and
other RR’s. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think what the author was trying to do
was to bring light to the situation without turning this into a discussion
about a particular corporation, and in fact was trying to bring light to, this
COULD happen. If the community does not want to have a policy in place to
protect people from this happening, that’s one choice, I think he was
hoping for the alternative.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Speaking for myself,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>-Chris<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Ted Mittelstaedt
[mailto:tedm@ipinc.net] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, February 11, 2009
1:21 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Chris Malayter;
arin-ppml@arin.net<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [arin-ppml] Policy
Proposal: Protective UsageTransferPolicyforIPv4 Address</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Which provider?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Unless your going to name names, I'm not
even going to consider looking at this.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The entire thing s<st1:PersonName w:st="on">mack</st1:PersonName>s
of trying to shove something through to benefit a </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>single special interest, with
zero explanations as to why it's being done.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>If these IX's had contacted each other and
contacted this alleged provider</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>and attempted to work something out, and
been rebuffed, and then contacted</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>ARIN and ARIN attempted to mediate
something, and once more was</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>rebuffed, THEN I would be willing to support
something like this. But so far</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>no evidence has been presented that anyone
tried diplomacy first, before</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>hauling out the munitions and attempting
to shoot people with the big guns.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Since there has been no cease and desist
order issued, and as you say the IX's</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>know they are eligible to request direct
allocations, then in my opinion if the IX's</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>are worried about some future cease and
desist order that may or may not happen,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>and they are unwilling to try talking
first, and unwilling to explain to the</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>community here who the players are and get
this problem out in the open,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>then SCREW THEM.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>They should immediately request their
micro allocations and when they get them,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>commence renumbering.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Ted</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Chris Malayter<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, February 10, 2009
10:26 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> arin-ppml@arin.net<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [arin-ppml] Policy
Proposal: Protective UsageTransferPolicyforIPv4 Address</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Hello all,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>In an effort to add some clarification behind the policy proposal
that was submitted I will add the following. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>There are a large number of IX’s in the North American region
(as well as other regions) that have address space allocated from a provider
that specializes in exchange allocations.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>According to the current ARIN policy, we are all eligible to
request space as a direct allocation from ARIN. That is not lost on the
IX’s and they do completely understand that they are eligible for a
direct allocation. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>The real issue is that if the current provider was to serve a
majority of the US IX’s with a cease and desist order from using the
space at the term of all of the existing contracts at the end of 2009 that
would force a massive renumber of most every IX in the North American region,
save one major IX.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>The reason behind the policy proposal was to provide a method to
allow IX’s 1) protection from having to renumber all of the IX’s,
or 2) to at least let the IX’s have enough time, before they are
forced out of the space, to have a smooth transition.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Moreover, if this happens to other “c(C)ritical
i(I)nfrastructure” corporations that happen to be in unique
situations like the IX’s there would be a policy in place to offer some
margin of time or protection to the affected parties.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Speaking for myself not any company or agent.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>-Chris<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:
bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net
[mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf
Of </span></b>Martin Hannigan<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, February 10, 2009
9:26 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> arin-ppml@arin.net<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [arin-ppml] Policy
Proposal: Protective Usage TransferPolicyforIPv4 Address</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Tue, Feb 10,
2009 at 3:33 PM, Leo Bicknell <<a href="mailto:bicknell@ufp.org">bicknell@ufp.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>In a message
written on Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 02:21:51PM -0500, Martin Hannigan wrote:<br>
> Why do they have two years? These sales are taking place now,
and<br>
> unexpectedly.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>I made the
assumption that we were talking about transfer policy<br>
style transactions, which ARIN hasn't approved yet; and further<br>
that we were talking about above board transactions. It seemed<br>
likely to me that above board transactions of that sort won't be<br>
approved until close to the free pool exhaustion.<br>
<br>
If someone is doing something below board there are better ways to<br>
address that than policy changes.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
I mostly agree with you, Leo, except that this stuff isn't happening below
board. The existing policies are being followed. This is a symptom of our
failure to reach consensus on a transfer policy that reflects the reality of
the twenty first century Internet, not of a systemic corruptness.<br>
<br>
Getting back to the policy; I support the intent, but I think that the author
should clarify what they want us to do a little better. Maybe ask us to
establish a process that a resource holder, an impacted indirect party, can
challenge the legitimacy of "any" transfer instead of appeal it after
the fact (TINA)? Maybe even suggest that all transfers are required to be
publicly announced on the website for a minimum of 60 days prior to execution
so that any affected parties are guaranteed at least some notice. Interesting
transparency, to say the least.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
-M<<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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