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Eric Westbrook wrote:<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid6905ba860809070928p19c57f39p6da62f3e0090e108@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<div>
<div class="Ih2E3d">Not sure this went through to the list on the
first try, so re-sending. Please disregard if duplicate.<br>
<br>
On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 9:34 PM, Howard, W. Lee <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:Lee.Howard@stanleyassociates.com" target="_blank">Lee.Howard@stanleyassociates.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="Ih2E3d">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>I see that. Can you specify in excrutiating detail what<br>
</div>
control you yield? I think you mean that you don't believe<br>
you should be required to release your address space under<br>
any circumstances. I think the few circumstances remaining<br>
in the LRSA are reasonable; can you list the ones you think<br>
are unfair?</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
I'm happy to clarify however I can. And while I'm admittedly motivated
to protect my own resources, I would like to think I'm speaking to
concerns held by many other legacy holders, in the hopes of championing
terms we can all live with happily and peaceably as a community.<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Eric,<br>
<br>
I'm one legacy holder you're also speaking for... I'm in full agreement
with you.<br>
<br>
This can and should be resolved with the ARIN without the Court system
getting into<br>
the middle, because, we'll both, Legacy holders and the ARIN, end up
with something<br>
nether of us can live with. <br>
<br>
I think IPv6 is the answer, however as other have, so very well pointed
out, IPv6 does<br>
have it own set of problems, major ones.<br>
<br>
Now, all that said, is IPv4 going away in the next 10 or 15 years? No
is not and you<br>
all know that as well as I do. Let's get pasted all this, and get on
with making the<br>
internet a safer place to do business.<br>
<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Richard<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid6905ba860809070928p19c57f39p6da62f3e0090e108@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
My point on that score is this: Today, I don't have to worry about
involuntary release. Perhaps "control" is the wrong term, but that's
more or less what I mean by it. I'd like to remain unworried about
that. And I'm willing to participate reasonably (indeed, perhaps
generously) to work for that. <br>
<br>
I think I must be confused about what the "few circumstances" to which
you refer are, because they don't seem few to me. Being bound to
current and future policy, without a release disavowment clause in the
LRSA, means that ARIN policy could change out from under legacy holders
in unanticipated ways, very conceivably resulting in disagreeable
involuntary release.<br>
</div>
<div class="Ih2E3d">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>Let me put my perspective this way. . . we worked hard to<br>
rewrite the LRSA so that the only circumstances under which<br>
you would cede your addresses to ARIN were under your control.<br>
<br>
</div>
By "we" I mean "that's what I was trying to do."</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
That sentiment reassures me enormously. So, why not make it explicit?
I think that a clear
statement to that effect in the LRSA, without exceptions made for
future unanticipated policy changes, would go far toward satisfying
even the
most skeptical legacy holders (although possibly not the most
penny-pinching).<br>
</div>
<div class="Ih2E3d">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>> 5. If any legacy holdings are to be seized, the<br>
> prevailing sentiment seems to prefer doing so with the<br>
> unreachable and/or apathetic holders, and not with the<br>
> cooperative and participating ones;<br>
<br>
</div>
I'm not sure I've seen that stated explicitly, but that seems<br>
like a reasonable preference. That would include falling<br>
out of touch/compliance with the LRSA, too (if signed).</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
That seems fair enough to me.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="Ih2E3d">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>> 6. Finally, by many if not all accounts,
reallocating,<br>
> reclaiming, and/or revoking legacy holdings simply isn't<br>
> likely to ameliorate ipv4 exhaustion (or ramifications<br>
> thereof) to any truly significant or meaningful degree.<br>
<br>
</div>
I concede that. That's why I didn't argue that legacy holders<br>
must be able to show utilization (whether under current<br>
policies, RFC2050, or the policies or use stated at the time<br>
of original assignment).</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
Among the points I tried to make, I find this one the most resonant.
If it's so extremely unlikely to benefit anyone, why insist on it,
particularly when doing so seems to create a barrier to the
participation of so many?<br>
</div>
<div class="Ih2E3d">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Thank
you for your reasonable tone and contribution.</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
My pleasure. I thank you for the same, and I also thank you for saying
so.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
Eric</font></div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
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