<div dir="ltr"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 6:16 PM, John Santos <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:JOHN@egh.com">JOHN@egh.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
So don't call it a carrot!<br>
</blockquote><div><br>(break out your philosophy textbooks, fire up wikipedia)<br><br>So let's call it a "social contract" or "social compact" <br><br>I believe that is basically what Leo is describing .. and he seems to have found a good analogy. <br>
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>
(Not you Leo, you seem to be honestly refering to it as a stick, but<br>
others have explicitly refered to it as a carrot, when in fact it is<br>
just a offer to temporarily refrain from hitting us (legacy holders)<br>
with a stick.)<br>
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
<br>
--<br>
John Santos<br>
Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.<br>
781-861-0670 ext 539<br>
</div></div><br>In a message written on Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 05:28:27PM -0400, John Santos wrote:<br>
> So the LRSA "carrot" seems to be "We won't hit you with this stick".<br>
> Sounds like the Piranha Brothers to me.<br>
<br>
There is no carrot for the resource holder.<br>
<br>
Society sets up rules that are good for all. We register cars,<br>
land, people, stocks, and all sorts of other stuff so society as a<br>
whole can take stock, determine rights, privileges and/or ownership.<br>
<br>
If you could avoid the cost, time, and hassle of doing any of the<br>
above you would. Don't have to renew your license plates every<br>
year, excellent! Don't have to send in any ARIN paperwork, bonus!<br>
<br>
However, you should be peeved when someone else gets to opt out of<br>
the system you use. When someone does a hit and run on your car,<br>
and you find they have no license plate to write down as they drive<br>
away you want them to be punished for not having properly registered<br>
their car. When someone sends you a 5G DOS attack you want network<br>
contacts so you can make it stop.<br>
<br>
This is far from a new problem. This is no different than a town<br>
suffering from the tragedy of the commons developing rules for who<br>
could graze and when, but then only applying them to half the towns<br>
people. It's no surprise the other half of the towns people like<br>
to be able to graze whenever they want, and even in some cases<br>
openly mock the townspeople who are trying to keep their animals<br>
off the commons.<br>
<br>
However, the end result is still a bare commons, and all of the<br>
animals die. That can happen here; when IPv4 runs out the motivation<br>
to hijack a legacy block will increase exponentially. Legacy holders<br>
may find themselves being hijacked at faster and faster rates. I<br>
have no doubt they will then come back to ARIN looking for a solution,<br>
and I fear the solution will be to abandon the IPv4 field as barren<br>
and destitute.<br>
<br>
I suspect the half of the towns people who set decent rules and<br>
tried to preserve the commons will be relatively unsympathetic at<br>
that point in time that those who have avoided participating in<br>
society and openly mocked them are now receiving their just rewards.<br>
<br>
There is no carrot for the individual. There is a need for the<br>
greater good. Unfortunately this is only enforced by sticks. Any<br>
carrot offered is only furthering a privileged class and codifying<br>
its nature.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Leo Bicknell - <a href="mailto:bicknell@ufp.org">bicknell@ufp.org</a> - CCIE 3440<br>
PGP keys at <a href="http://www.ufp.org/%7Ebicknell/" target="_blank">http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/</a><br>
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