<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>On May 5, 2008, at 2:30 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><br><blockquote type="cite">Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 15:20:50 -0500<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">From: "Kevin Kargel" <<a href="mailto:kkargel@polartel.com">kkargel@polartel.com</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To: <<a href="mailto:ppml@arin.net">ppml@arin.net</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Legacy Space authority<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Ah, but the telephone issue has already been decided, and telco's are<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">required to let you keep your number and area code..<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">FALSE TO FACT. _Read_ the document you cite. I quote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> "If you are moving from one geographic area to another, however, you<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">may <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> not be able to take your number with you.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Yes, this is true. If you move from one area code to another at least<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">within the same geographic area you will be able to take the number.<br></blockquote><br>I say again, "FALSE TO FACT". <br><br> a) that 7-digit number may already be in use in the destination NPA.<br><br> b) the porting rules require *LOCAL* number portability only. that's why<br> it is called "Local Number Portability", aka LNP.<br><br> c) "local" is defined as "within the same rate center", which, by definition<br> means it is restricted to a single area-code. The concept of "rate-<br> centers" was developed -before- 'overlay' area-codes existed, and there<br> is a built-in assumption of a hierarchical structure, where a rate center<br> is part of a single area-code only. This can result in two rate centers,<br> in different area codes, being 'zero miles' apart.<br><br></blockquote>This is not true. For example, 530 and 916 are the same rate center.</div><div><br></div><div>Also, 310, 213, and, I believe a couple of others are in the same rate center.</div><div><br></div><div>These are what is known as "overlay area codes", and, in those locations,</div><div>you can have LNP even if all your neighbors have a different area code</div><div>so long as you stay within the bounds of the rate center.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Also, the statement you included says "you may not be able to", which<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">infers "you may be able to".. What it says to my reading is that if it<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">is technically possible to port the number then you will be able to port<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the number.<br></blockquote><br>What you read, and how it is interpreted in the real world, by the people<br>who do it, is different. :)<br><br>If the 'new' carrier does not have a physical point of presence in the<br>same rate center at the C.O. of the 'old' carrier that the number is <br>currently served out of, the number is *NOT* transferable to that company.<br>Don't take my word for it, ask the FCC. <grin><br><br></blockquote>True, but, finding a major cellular carrier that doesn't have a physical</div><div>presence in your rate center isn't exactly easy in most cases.</div><div>Then, once you've moved it from land-line to cellular, you can, generally</div><div>move it anywhere in the country for all practical purposes.</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite">In theory, it may be "possible" in some circumstances, but the laws and<br>FCC regulations do -not- require it. Since it is not 'required', it is,<br>in virtually all instances 'administratively denied'. When a thing is _not_<br>required, you have no recourse if the other party "chooses not to" do it.<br><br></blockquote>See my previous paragraph. I know a number of people who have used</div><div>this as a workaround.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">People are moving from state to state and taking their cel numbers with<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">them. This is even happening across a span of more than one state.<br></blockquote><br>No, they are _NOT_. They are 'roaming' within the cellular network. The <br>physical address for the service (where the call is handed off to the PSTN)<br>remains unchanged. If a person with a (208) area cell-phone moves to <br>Washington, D.C., and keeps their old number, when they're at 8th and I, <br>and somebody calls them from 4th and K, it is billed as a long distance call<br>_to_Idaho_. In fact, the call is _routed_ to Idaho over the PSTN, and then <br>back-hauled to where the cell customer is over the wireless carrier's private<br>bandwidth. (there _may_ be 'special case' handling if the calling party is<br>a cellular caller with service from the same provider as the called party uses.<br>Repeat, "may" be, not necessarily 'is'.)<br><br></blockquote>Who cares. Long distance within the CONUS is free if you aren't voluntarily</div><div>paying stupid rates these days, so, what does it matter how much it is</div><div>backhauled? The extra 20ms doesn't really seem to affect call quality.</div><div><blockquote type="cite"></blockquote><br><blockquote type="cite">It all has to do with how distance-based billing (originally long-distance) <br>charges are calculated. <br><br></blockquote>Well, had would be a better phrase. These days, I know very few people</div><div>other than on business land-lines who pay for long-distance calls within</div><div>the CONUS. Most business pay low enough rates for them that they simply</div><div>don't care about the costs.</div><div><br></div><div>It used to be that long distance charges mattered. Today, they have dropped</div><div>to a level where they are mostly regarded as noise, and, indeed, I think mostly</div><div>go to pay for the cost of metering them and producing the bills more than</div><div>to maintaining the actual network.</div><div><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><br></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">You can "port" a phone number only within the rate-center where the number<br>is billed. And then only within the same NPA ("area code" to the average<br>person). The latter restriction prohibits multiple people holding the same <br>7-digit string in different NPAs from moving into a single vicinity and<br>fighting about who has to give up 'their' number.<br><br></blockquote>Right, but, in rate centers with multiple NPAs, you can move your NPANXXSFXX</div><div>anywhere within that rate center without changing your NPA.</div><div><br></div><div>Owen</div><div><br></div></body></html>