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Leo Bicknell wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:20080228155953.GA92342@ussenterprise.ufp.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">In a message written on Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 10:11:33AM -0500, Cliff Bedore wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I think the idea of this proposal is necessary but I don't think ARIN should
be in the business of assisting transfer sales of IP addresses unless they
have no assets to fill a legitmate request. It may be implied somewhere that
ARIN will not allow a sale if they have assets available but I didn't see it.
Therefore I'm not convinced that "exhaustion of the IANA IPv4 free pool" is
the correct time. I think transfer sales should start the first time ARIN
can't meet a legitmate request and even after that, should only be allowed
when ARIN doesn't have the particular size requested available.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
In one of our sessions someone proposed "the first time ARIN could
not fill a request"; and we were in fact informed that had already
occurred. While a bit of a technicality, I suspect the issue was
ARIN did not have enough free space for a large request, and had
to go back to IANA for more space which prevented them from filling
the request right away.
The problem with using the date ARIN can't make a sale is that it
is different for different people, and in fact may not be what you
request. ARIN could keep a table of "we can make /18, /19, and
/20's" on the web site, but making a /20 may use up the last /18
and take it away. Or, someone may ask for a /20, work with ARIN
staff who only sees justification for a /21, but there are none of
those left. If someone was basing their decision on the availability
of /20's that won't work so well.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<tt>I realize that ARIN resources and user resources for sale will
happen in an overlapping manner. I realize it is a complex problem due
to considerations such as splitting a large block to handle a small
block vs transfer/sale of a user block of the right size. Probably
more complex than I can imagine right now but ARIN is also chartered(?
whatever term is correct) to get users to convert to IPv6 and spending
lots of time and money to extend IPv4 seems to be contrary to that
goal. I'm not sure anyone coming in for addresses that late in the
game shouldn't suffer a few delays in getting addresses. It's not like
they haven't had ample warning about a shortage.</tt><br>
<blockquote cite="mid:20080228155953.GA92342@ussenterprise.ufp.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
Lastly, if we wait for ARIN to be unavailable and then spin up the
system described in 2008-2 there will likely be a small gap during
which no one can get space. While I believe ARIN staff can manage
the transition quite nicely, there is a level of public education,
putting information on the web, having staff process a new type of
request, etc. I think many on the AC wanted to err on th side of
a small amount of overlap rather than a small gap in service.
</pre>
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<br>
<tt>I don't think ARIN has to wait to set up the procedures. I just
think they should wait to start using them. :-) One problem with
listing end user blocks for sale is that technically, the end user can
no longer justify their current allocation and it would seem that ARIN
would be justified in reclaiming them is a fair number of cases rather
than approving a transfer sale.</tt><br>
<blockquote cite="mid:20080228155953.GA92342@ussenterprise.ufp.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
Do any of those reasons alter your opinion, or do you still believe
IANA Free Pool exhaustion is the wrong time?
</pre>
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<br>
<tt>I understand your argument but I think the answer has to decided
based on whether ARIN is more interested in promoting the switch to v6
or band-aiding v4 for as long as possible.<br>
<br>
ARIN does seem to have something of a split personality toward
perpetuating v4 and promoting v6. This proposal seems to me to be
bending over backwards toward perpetuating v4. The proposals to
allow/get legacy users to use v6 and sign RSAs however seems to have
some dis-incentives to them. If ARIN really wanted legacy users to
sign an RSA and convert to v6, they would allow them to qualify for a
v6 allocation equivalent to the v4 size they received during the legacy
period without regard to whether they meet the current requirements.
As an example, I have a /24 PI which was granted long before ARIN ever
came along. I currently don't meet the 25/50% rule to justify that /24
but I did meet the requirements at the time it was issued. I would
think that ARIN could offer the minimum v6 allocation to any /24 (or
maybe any) legacy holder who is willing to sign the RSA and join the
fold. I don't think it would be a big number since I expect many of
the legacy addresses have been abandoned and many who are active would
qualify under current rules but it would demonstrate ARIN's seriousness
about getting v6 started. This should probably be a separate
discussion but it fits in with (at least my perception of) the ARIN
split personality aspect of the 2008-2<br>
<br>
Also note that in reality, I'll probably be retired and in a home
before my /24 will cease to be useful. I'd like to get the v6 space to
use for learning/testing and maybe forcing my upstream ISP to start
routing v6. If enough people did that, it would help speed the
transition.<br>
<br>
Cliff<br>
</tt>
<blockquote cite="mid:20080228155953.GA92342@ussenterprise.ufp.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
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