<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">Wrong, wrong, wrong.<DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I appreciate the comments, but I think some people still are misunderstanding the issues.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Let me clarify, my post has nothing to do with Org's reversing IPs with valid PTRs. If an Org doesn't want to reverse an an IP thats fine, and like Owen said, with no PTR, and instantaneous NX Domain error comes back, no timeout.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>But that is not that scenario I am describing. Consider the following real-world example:</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV># nslookup 208.72.239.200</DIV><DIV>Server: 4.2.2.2</DIV><DIV>Address: 4.2.2.2#53</DIV><DIV>** server can't find 200.239.72.208.in-addr.arpa: NXDOMAIN</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Thats good. The AS who advertises 208.72.239.0/24 has the 239.72.208.in-addr.arpa zone configured in their name server, an SOA an NS record exists, but there is no PTR data. And that is perfectly fine.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Now consider this...</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV># nslookup 76.161.191.192</DIV><DIV>;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>And the above took about 20 seconds to return. The AS who advertises 76.161.192.0/24 (and many other /24's) does not have the 192.161.76.in-addr.arpa zone configured at all on their DNS server. This is a problem for the user of that IP, and any person on the internet that has to talk to that IP since it will create a burdensome dns timeouts.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I'm sorry, but that second example is simply unacceptable. This may sound rude, but the amount of money ARIN brings in for ASN registrations, membership, and IP range allocations - the buck has to stop with ARIN when it comes to AS's who completely misconfigure massive in-addr.arpa zones and potentially create the environment to slow down dns traffic throughout the internet.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>When ARIN delegates reverse authority to the DNS servers of an AS that does not have in-addr.arpa zone configured at all (for IP's in use), ARIN is openly supporting a practice that hurts the internet by allowing these dns timeouts to propagate. ARIN should take responsibility.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>All I am saying is simply state in policy, that if an AS advertises a prefix and uses an IP range, that in-addr.arpa zone for those IPs has to be at least be configured to return an SOA and avoid this problem of timeouts. If they dont, that AS is violating policy, and if they dont resolve it, the dns delegation would be removed all together - with a specified time table (say within 30 days).</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>-John</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On Sep 11, 2007, at 8:34 AM, Owen DeLong wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>Also, such a server should _NOT_ cause delays. It should instantaneously</DIV><DIV>return an NXDOMAIN result.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Your issue isn't lame servers. Your issue is servers with incomplete data,</DIV><DIV>which is an operational issue well outside of the scope of Address Assignment</DIV><DIV>policy.</DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>Thanks, </DIV><DIV>John Von Essen</DIV><DIV>(800) 248-1736 ext 100</DIV><DIV><A href="mailto:john@quonix.net">john@quonix.net</A></DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>