<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">Couple of quick points.<DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I have spent three weeks with the ISP, and they are either incompetent or unwilling to resolve, or both.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>And it is definitely not a case of them rolling out a new /24 and simply forgetting to add it to their DNS server. I have done some digging around, and they have massive amounts of IPs ranges that have no in-addr.arpa mappings. </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I understand some people think that this is an ISP-and-customer issue, but when an ISP who has a /16 or larger assignment and they engage in activity that literally slows down external resolvers throughout the internet by causing tons of excessive reverse DNS timeouts, I do feel it is ARIN's responsibility to have a policy that will official denounce this practice</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>-John</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On Sep 10, 2007, at 10:26 PM, Hyunseog Ryu wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><FONT size="2"><P><BR>I don't think this should be considered as policy discussion.<BR>It's their way to manage reverse zone data.<BR>it seems to me that they have inverse dns setup for allocated ip block, but they don't maintain the data as up-to-dated.<BR>It should be dealt between you and your ISP, and there is not much ARIN can do.<BR>If your ISP doesn't update reverse DNS data for your IP, it's their customer case handling problem.<BR>You can escalate the case with your ISP, or find somebody else.<BR>This is my humble opinion. <BR><BR>Hyun<BR>Sent from blackberry on the road<BR></P></FONT><HR><FONT size="2"><P> ----- Original Message -----<BR><B> From: </B>John Von Essen [<A href="mailto:john@quonix.net">john@quonix.net</A>]<BR><B> Sent: </B>09/10/2007 10:14 PM AST<BR><B> To: </B>Public Policy Mailing List <<A href="mailto:ppml@arin.net">ppml@arin.net</A>><BR><B> Subject: </B>[ppml] Comments on ARIN's reverse DNS mapping policy<BR></P></FONT><BR> Disclaimer: This is my first post, so be kind!<DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>A run-in with a local ISP in my area was a cause for concern. That lead me to a closer understanding of ARINs reverse DNS policy, then an email to ARINs hostmaster, and now an email to this list.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>First, let me describe the scenario that spawned all of this.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>1. I signup for DSL and receive an account with an IP address that does not resolve.</DIV><DIV>2. Upon review, its more then a missing PTR, the IP I was given belongs to an in-addr.arpa zone which is not mapped at all in the ISP's DNS servers - the servers indicated in their IP assignments from ARIN. It is not site-wide however, some in-addr.arpa's they map, others they do not.</DIV><DIV>3. Several functions on my PC incur long reverse DNS timeouts (up to 30 seconds) as a result. i.e. sending mail through smtp, telnet and ssh connections, and any other protocol which natively has built in reverse DNS checks.</DIV><DIV>4. Contact ISP to resolve, no luck.</DIV><DIV>5. Contacted ISPs ARIN Tech/Abuse/NOC POCs, still no luck.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>After contacting the ARIN hostmaster, it is my understanding that under the current policy the ISP in question is not violating anything. Since at least one in-addr.arpa prefix in their range is properly mapped, their reverse DNS servers are not considered Lame.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I do not agree with this. I feel that every prefix advertised from an AS should have all of its in-addr.arpa zones mapped, that is 100% compliancy for reverse DNS.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I feel that the scenario of these dns timeouts is significant and should be avoided. Theoretically, it is causing an environment that wastes UDP connections. Consider GoDaddy's public SMTP server for email customers. Every user that hits that smtp server causes a reverse dns check - so a UDP connection is needed, but quickly recycled because it finishes within a few milliseconds. But users who come from ISPs who do not map their in-addr.arpa cause GoDaddy's resolvers to open a UDP connection and wait for a timeout, then retry, wait, then try secondary, server, etc.,. Thereby wasting resources on GoDaddy's internal resolving DNS servers.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>What are other peoples thoughts on this? Could the policy be updated requiring full mapping of ALL in-addr.arpa zones that an AS advertises? </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>ARIN wont have to police behavior of ISPs, just have the policy in place so the community can say to a rogue ISP, "Hey, you violate policy". Down the road automated systems would be nice to automatically find AS's who violate.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>Thanks, </DIV><DIV>John Von Essen</DIV><DIV>(800) 248-1736 ext 100</DIV><DIV>President, Quonix Networks, Inc.</DIV><DIV><A href="mailto:john@quonix.net">john@quonix.net</A></DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">PPML</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Mailing List (<A href="mailto:PPML@arin.net">PPML@arin.net</A>).</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/ppml">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/ppml</A> Please contact the ARIN Member Services</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Help Desk at <A href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</A> if you experience any issues.</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>Thanks, </DIV><DIV>John Von Essen</DIV><DIV>(800) 248-1736 ext 100</DIV><DIV><A href="mailto:john@quonix.net">john@quonix.net</A></DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>