<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On May 16, 2007, at 10:42 AM, John Santos wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I have no problem with the current policy.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>I have my class C and</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">don't need any more.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">However, you people do seem to have a problem and want to force</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">us little guys into selling our souls to some big ISP, except we</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">don't get anything from this, instead we have to pay through the</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">nose.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Huh? Who do you mean by "You People"?</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>ARIN is an organization made up of two groups of people... On one</DIV><DIV>hand, you have the members, most of whom _ARE_ ISPs of various</DIV><DIV>sizes. On the other hand, you have the community. The community,</DIV><DIV>which is the body that actually has the greatest amount of input into</DIV><DIV>ARIN policy is made up of ANYONE interested in IP policy.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I have proposed IP Policy without being an ARIN member. I have</DIV><DIV>see policy proposals I drafted and policy proposals I helped modify</DIV><DIV>become ARIN Policy without being an ARIN member.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>When you say "YOU PEOPLE" like we are some amorphous body</DIV><DIV>bent on causing you grief, you seem to forget that you are, by virtue</DIV><DIV>of the fact that you are participating on this list, one of "YOU PEOPLE".</DIV><DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">How much does it actually cost to maintain a single record, a few</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">hundred bytes of information that never changes?</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>It's probably a little less than the $100/year you have to pay under</DIV><DIV>ARINs structure, but, you can maintain as many records as you</DIV><DIV>need for that same $100/year, so, I don't think it's such a horrible</DIV><DIV>deal.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Since you think $100/year is too much to pay for all of your ARIN</DIV><DIV>resources, could you tell us what you think would be a more</DIV><DIV>reasonable price for annual service from ARIN?<BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">As best I can tell, you would want to charge me several hundred</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">dollars a year, close to a dollar per address, whereas large ISPs</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">get addresses for a fraction of a penny per year.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Are you an ISP or an end user? Quoting from the ARIN fee page:</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>=============</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#478ADE" face="Arial" size="4"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 15px;"><B>Annual Maintenance Fee</B></SPAN></FONT></DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 12.0px 0.0px; line-height: 18.0px"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12.2px;">ARIN assesses a consolidated annual maintenance fee of $100 (USD) for each Org ID with resources registered with ARIN to cover the cost of maintaining assignment information. Org IDs that also have direct allocations of IP address space associated with them do not have to pay this fee.</SPAN></FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 12.0px 0.0px; line-height: 18.0px"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12.2px;">ARIN will invoice organizations two months prior to the anniversary date of their first resource registration, and the payment is due by that anniversary date.</SPAN></FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 12.0px 0.0px; line-height: 18.0px"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12.2px;">In cases where a single Org ID has more than one resource registered with ARIN (e.g. AS numbers, IPv4 or IPv6 assignments, or network transfers), ARIN charges only a single maintenance fee of $100.</SPAN></FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 12.0px 0.0px; line-height: 18.0px"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12.2px;">End-users should ensure that their annual payment is made by the due date on their invoice, in accordance with the </SPAN></FONT><A href="http://www.arin.net/registration/agreements/rsa.pdf"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12.2px;"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#000E62"><B>Registration Services Agreement</B></FONT></SPAN></FONT></A><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12.2px;">. If not paid by the invoice due date, the address space may be revoked.</SPAN></FONT></P><DIV>=============</DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 12.0px 0.0px; line-height: 18.0px"><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12.2px;"><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></SPAN></FONT></P><DIV>If you have a single record, or, as is more likely the case, even a</DIV><DIV>set of records that do not change, then, you must be an end-user,</DIV><DIV>because ISPs (in the ARIN sense of the term) are people who</DIV><DIV>reallocate or reassign space to other organizations. Thus, ISPs</DIV><DIV>do not have single records that do not change.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>If you are an end user, you only pay $100/year, no matter how</DIV><DIV>many resources you have from ARIN. Yes, there are some</DIV><DIV>additional one-time fees to process a new registration request,</DIV><DIV>but, your paragraph seems to be talking about the annual fees</DIV><DIV>since you mention "dollars a year". In this, you are mistaken, the</DIV><DIV>fee is only $100.</DIV><DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">You guys want people to jump on the IPv6 bandwagon.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>You really want</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">them to jump on the money wagon.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Hardly. ARIN fees are not structured to penalize anyone. Further,</DIV><DIV>ARIN is actually fairly frugal in their spending of what they do collect.</DIV><DIV>Your accusations here seem specious to me. It's not like anyone</DIV><DIV>at ARIN is getting paid on commission or receives any more or less</DIV><DIV>money based on the amount of v6 space people use or the rate</DIV><DIV>of adoption of v6. Indeed, in terms of v4 vs. v6, ARIN as an</DIV><DIV>organization is pretty much agnostic. However, the reality is</DIV><DIV>that eventually, we will be unable to sustain growth of new users</DIV><DIV>in the IPv4 address space due to freespace exhaustion. The only</DIV><DIV>solution to that problem is a larger address space. Currently, the</DIV><DIV>most viable proposal for a larger address space is v6.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>The fact that ARIN does not want to repeat the mistakes of early</DIV><DIV>IPv4 address with IPv6 is not about collecting fees. It is about</DIV><DIV>being able to track whether addresses are still in use or not, and,</DIV><DIV>about having the ability for address policy changes to apply to</DIV><DIV>existing addresses rather than having to maintain multiple legacy</DIV><DIV>policies in perpetuity.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Owen</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV></BODY></HTML>