Well that violates the agreement that the market has with the RIRs. I'm sure that a blackmarket will/has spring up when that point is reached. Curious on how the RIRs will police it.<br><br>Aaron<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">
On 3/22/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Tony Hain</b> <<a href="mailto:alh-ietf@tndh.net">alh-ietf@tndh.net</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">At that point, it is not up to ARIN because they have already
handed out everything they can. Asserting that addresses are not tradable property
only works as long as people are willing to listen to someone with an
alternative. Once the RIR's can't offer an alternative source of addresses, the
market will establish the price and the little guys will be forced out. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Tony</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
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<p><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> heh heh
[mailto:<a href="mailto:dudepron@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">dudepron@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 22, 2007 2:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:alh-ietf@tndh.net" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">alh-ietf@tndh.net</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jay Sudowski - Handy Networks LLC; <a href="mailto:ppml@arin.net" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">ppml@arin.net</a><div><span class="e" id="q_1117a0dcc8e3aba5_1"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ppml] In$entive$</span></div></span></p>
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<p> </p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">Isn't this establish/forcing
routing policy in a indirect way? I can't afford IPv4 so I have to use
IPv6. I don't believe that ARIN would want to set this precedent. <br>
<br>
Aaron</p>
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<p><span>On 3/22/07, <b>Tony Hain</b> <<a href="mailto:alh-ietf@tndh.net" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">alh-ietf@tndh.net</a>> wrote:</span></p>
<p>While Leo's pricing model may not have any impact on the
consumption rate<br>
(because we are likely to run out before the price gets high enough), his<br>
overall model of escalating prices is probably right as the commercial trade <br>
in addresses takes hold. If that price escalation is going to drive small<br>
providers out of business, that will happen despite whatever ARIN does.<br>
<br>
Tony<br>
<br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href="mailto:ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">ppml-bounces@arin.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>] On Behalf Of<br>
> Jay Sudowski - Handy Networks LLC<br>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 4:05 AM<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:ppml@arin.net" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">ppml@arin.net</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [ppml] In$entive$<br>
><br>
> >-----Original Message-----<br>
> >From: <a href="mailto:ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>] On
Behalf<br>
> Of<br>
> Leo Bicknell<br>
> >Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:31 PM<br>
> >To: <a href="mailto:ppml@arin.net" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">ppml@arin.net</a><br>
> >Subject: [ppml] In$entive$ <br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> >I'm going to start a thread with an offshoot idea, although it's not<br>
> strictly a policy matter. People keep >talking about
incenting people<br>
> to move to IPv6. What if ARIN were to implement a new fee <br>
> >schedule:<br>
> ><br>
> >Year Fees for IPv4 Addresses<br>
> >2007 Existing rates.<br>
> >2008 2 * 2007 Rates<br>
> >2009 4 * 2007 Rates<br>
> >2010 8 * 2007 Rates<br>
> >2011 16 * 2007 Rates <br>
> >2012 32 * 2007 Rates<br>
> >2013 32 * 2007 Rates<br>
> >2014 32 * 2007 Rates<br>
> >2015 32 * 2007 Rates<br>
> >etc<br>
> ><br>
> >Per <a href="http://www.arin.net/billing/fee_schedule.html" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.arin.net/billing/fee_schedule.html</a>,
someone with a<br>
> single /19 would go from $2,250 a year in >2007 to $72,000 in 2012.<br>
> >It's predictable so you can show management, there is a sense of <br>
> urgency, and it doesn't happen overnight to >create a run on IPv6<br>
> addresses. It also provides proportional incentive to the
largest and<br>
> smallest IP's.<br>
> ><br>
> >As an alternative, so as not to punish existing address space holders <br>
> this could be applied to initial >allocations only.<br>
> ><br>
> >I suspect, "hey boss, our IPv4 space is going to cost us 32x in 6<br>
> years, and we can get IPv6 space for free" >would be a powerful <br>
> motivator.<br>
><br>
> Meanwhile, every single small business service provider goes out of<br>
> business because their IPv4 space costs just escalated to absurd<br>
> levels.<br>
><br>
><br>
> I hope you note that costs for IP addresses are already <br>
> disproportionate<br>
> to the number of IPs you are allocated. A /20 costs 55 cents
per IP<br>
> address. A /13 costs 1.71 cents per IP address. A /8
costs .053 cents<br>
> per IP address. Put another way, a small service provider is
already <br>
> paying 100 times more per IP address than monster enterprise service<br>
> provider with a /8 worth of IPs allocated to them. After your
proposed<br>
> cost increases, small business provider with a /20 will be paying <br>
> $17.60<br>
> per IP address, per year and monster enterprise provider will be paying<br>
> $.169 per IP address.<br>
><br>
> The last thing I need to worry about is ARIN jacking up my rates to<br>
> $17.60 per IP address. That would be a veritable death
sentence for <br>
> my<br>
> company.<br>
><br>
> -Jay Sudowski<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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