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<DIV><SPAN class=567360521-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Just
on a side note.. ISPs do not 'have' to honor their BGP advertisements for that
space either..</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=567360521-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>They
could just program their routers to dishonor BGP advertisements of certain
/8s with a certain ASN..</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=567360521-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Anyone
else having part of that that /8 they'll honor..</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=567360521-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=567360521-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Forced
reclamation.. on a global scale. Mwahahahahahahaha.... :-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=567360521-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> owner-ppml@arin.net
[mailto:owner-ppml@arin.net]<B>On Behalf Of </B>John M. Brown<BR><B>Sent:</B>
Wednesday, October 02, 2002 2:56 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'Jeff Urmann'<BR><B>Cc:</B>
ppml@arin.net<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [ppml] ARIN Policy Proposal 2002-9
(fwd)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=399105020-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>IANAL</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=399105020-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=399105020-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Restraint of trade</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=399105020-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Interference with Interstate Commerce</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=399105020-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=399105020-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
original alloc (pre-arin) documents ( ie contract) say nothing about
having to </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=399105020-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>return it, or having to abide by a new contract at a later date as part
of the terms.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=399105020-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=399105020-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If
you purchase a car on a fixed payment plan and 18 months into a 36 month
loan</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=399105020-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>they
increase the payment 2x, what would you do ? If you
original loan paperwork</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=399105020-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>said
nothing about future changes or payment increases, you have them for
breach.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=399105020-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If
you loan paperwork did have language about changes and increases, then you
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=399105020-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>would have to pay the new amount. I've simplified the example by
not actually providing</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=399105020-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>the
language that would be in the contract.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=399105020-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=399105020-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Otherwords, the original holders of IP allocations don't have a legal
requirement to</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=399105020-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>return, and neither do the RIR's have a legal abiltiy to take it
back.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=399105020-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=399105020-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
don't believe ICANN owns the space. The IANA is charged with
management</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=399105020-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>of
the space on a global basis. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Jeff Urmann
[mailto:Jeff.Urmann@HFA-MN.ORG] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 02, 2002
2:32 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'john@chagres.net'<BR><B>Cc:</B>
'ppml@arin.net'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [ppml] ARIN Policy Proposal 2002-9
(fwd)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=734582720-02102002><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"
color=#0000ff size=2>Correct me if I am wrong, but what legal leg does any
ip space holder have to stand on?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=734582720-02102002><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"
color=#0000ff size=2>Sure anybody can sue anybody for any
reason.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=734582720-02102002><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=734582720-02102002><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"
color=#0000ff size=2>IP addresses are allocated, not owned. ICANN owns
the numbers, don`t they? ARIN has</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=734582720-02102002><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"
color=#0000ff size=2>been granted the rights to allocate/unallocate the
space as they see fit (in the best interest</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=734582720-02102002><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"
color=#0000ff size=2>of the global internet of course).
Right?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=734582720-02102002><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> John M. Brown
[mailto:john@chagres.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 02, 2002 3:06
PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'Newton, Justin'; 'Jeff Urmann';
ppml@arin.net<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [ppml] ARIN Policy Proposal 2002-9
(fwd)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=027010420-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Correct. "Forced Revocation" of pre ARIN space would
cause some interesting </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=027010420-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>legal issues, and thus cost ARIN substantial amounts of money in
legal fees.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=027010420-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=027010420-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>I personally would rather see ARIN spending money on things that
build, instead</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=027010420-02102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>of defending or breaking
things.</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>