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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=503343320-15032001>Richard,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=503343320-15032001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=503343320-15032001>Thanks
for the info, in regards to your question:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=503343320-15032001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=503343320-15032001>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face="Courier New"><SPAN
class=720381619-15032001><SPAN class=503343320-15032001>></SPAN>To be clear,
is your first proposal above to consider /24 assignments
by</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face="Courier New"><SPAN
class=720381619-15032001><SPAN class=503343320-15032001>></SPAN>ISPs
justified based solely on the multi-homing requirements of the
customer?</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001></SPAN> </DIV><FONT size=2><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT face="Courier New">
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><SPAN
class=503343320-15032001>Yes.</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jon Foreman</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>BBO
-</FONT> <FONT face=Arial size=2>Service Activation Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2>jforeman@bbo.com</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Desk:
703.641.6451</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Mobile: 703.403.4263</FONT>
<BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Pager: 7034034263@message.bam.com</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Richard Jimmerson
[mailto:richardj@arin.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 15, 2001 3:28
PM<BR><B>To:</B> jforeman@bbo.com; ppml@arin.net<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: /24
assignments to multi-homed customers who can't justify the us e of >126
hosts in 3-6 months<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2>Hello Jon,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2>Thank you for posting your messages to the ARIN public
policy</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2>mailing list.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001>
<DIV><SPAN class=538143418-15032001><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=2><SPAN class=720381619-15032001>> </SPAN>I sent email directly to
ARIN and also phoned the registration help desk. In both situations I
was</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=538143418-15032001><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=2><SPAN class=720381619-15032001>></SPAN> informed that ARIN does
not allocate or allow others to allocate netblocks based on routing
needs.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2>This is an accurate account of the current situation. ARIN
follows the</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2>assignment guidelines outlined in RFC 2050, paragraph 3.1. In
summary,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2>end-users will be assigned a block of IP address space based on their
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2>immediate </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT
color=#0000ff face="Courier New" size=2>requirements and one year
projections. The organization needs </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2>to </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff
face="Courier New" size=2>demonstrate 25% of their assignment will be utilized
immediately and</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2>that they have a projected one year need for 50% of the assignment
size</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2>they receive. This is the guideline ARIN follows when reviewing
the</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2>reassignments ISPs have made to their downstream end-user
customers.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT face="Courier New"><SPAN
class=538143418-15032001><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=2><SPAN class=720381619-15032001>> </SPAN>As far as I see it, for the
Internet community as a whole, there are two
solutions:</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=538143418-15032001><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=2><SPAN class=720381619-15032001>> </SPAN>1) ARIN needs to change its
policy to accommodate institutions that have a need to be multi-homed,
or,</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=538143418-15032001><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=2><SPAN class=720381619-15032001>> </SPAN>2) ISPs need to modify their
routing policies to allow advertisements longer than a
/24.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=538143418-15032001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2>Of course, ARIN is not in a position to comment on the second
proposed</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2>solution listed above. In regard to the first proposed solution,
however,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2>ARIN welcomes comments from all interested parties. Policies
in the ARIN</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2>region are formed through open policy discussions that take place on
mailing</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2>lists like this one and public policy meetings held twice yearly.
The next</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2>public policy meeting will be held early next month. Information
about this</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2>meeting can be found at <A
href="http://www.arin.net/meetings/index.html">http://www.arin.net/meetings/index.html</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2>To be clear, is your first proposal above to consider /24 assignments
by</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2>ISPs justified based solely on the multi-homing requirements of the
customer?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001></SPAN><SPAN
class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001>> It would be interesting if ARIN
could share the number of ASNs that have been registered within the last year.
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001>This information is available at <A
href="http://www.arin.net/regserv/IPStats.html">http://www.arin.net/regserv/IPStats.html</A></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001>> If the appropriate parties at ARIN
could project the number of ASNs that will be
registered</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001>> over the next few years..
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001>A presentation entitled, "AS Number
Depletion," was presented by Scott Marcus</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001>at the </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
class=538143418-15032001>ARIN public policy meeting in October 2000.
This presentation may </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001>provide </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
class=538143418-15032001>some of the information you are looking for. It
can be found at</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001> <A
href="http://www.arin.net/minutes/public/arinvi/ARIN_VI_PPM.htm">http://www.arin.net/minutes/public/arinvi/ARIN_VI_PPM.htm</A></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001>Again, thank you for posting your
messages to the public policy mailing</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001>list. All parties interested in
this subject are invited to make</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001>comments.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001><FONT face=Arial size=2>Richard
Jimmerson</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Director of Operations</FONT>
<BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>American Registry for Internet Numbers
(ARIN)</FONT> </DIV></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720381619-15032001><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"
size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> owner-ppml@arin.net
[mailto:owner-ppml@arin.net]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>jforeman@bbo.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 15, 2001 1:51
PM<BR><B>To:</B> ppml@arin.net<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: /24 assignments to
multi-homed customers who can't justify the us e of >126 hosts in 3-6
months<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=538143418-15032001>Hi,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=538143418-15032001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001>I
received some informative responses from members of this list regarding the
initial message I sent (see below). Could someone from ARIN please respond
with your thoughts on this matter?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=538143418-15032001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001>I
sent email directly to ARIN and also phoned the registration help desk. In
both situations I was informed that ARIN does not allocate or allow others
to allocate netblocks based on routing needs.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=538143418-15032001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001>As
far as I see it, for the Internet community as a whole, there are two
solutions:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=538143418-15032001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001>1)
ARIN needs to change its policy to accommodate institutions that have a need
to be multi-homed, or,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001>2)
ISPs need to modify their routing policies to allow advertisements longer
than a /24.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=538143418-15032001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001>In
my opinion, the most viable solution is the first one mentioned above. In
order to implement solution #2, you'd have to get all of the ISPs that are
out there to change their routing policies. This is much more difficult than
having one organization (ARIN) make the change.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=538143418-15032001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=538143418-15032001>The additional problem with solution #2 is: if ISPs
change their routing policies to allow advertisements longer than a /24, can
their routers accommodate the increased size of the Internet routing table?
Probably not, since that is why the /24 policies are in
place.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=538143418-15032001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001>Of
course, the main problem with solution #1 is that certain netblocks will be
inefficiently allocated. However, most customers that are multi-homed
typically have enough hosts to require a /24 netblock or larger, so in all
likelihood, there probably won't be many institutions that can't justify a
/24 but need to be multi-homed.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=538143418-15032001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=538143418-15032001>It
would be interesting if ARIN could share the number of ASNs that have been
registered within the last year. Based on my experience over the last 2
years installing BGP customers at ISPs, I would estimate that, at the very
high end, 10% of institutions that aim to be multi-homed will require a
larger netblock than they can justify in order to accommodate those routing
needs. If the appropriate parties at ARIN could project the number of ASNs
that will be registered over the next few years.. you could calculate how
many networks/IPs will be inefficiently allocated and see what sort of
impact a policy change would have.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=538143418-15032001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=538143418-15032001>Thanks,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jon Foreman</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>BBO -</FONT> <FONT face=Arial size=2>Service Activation
Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>jforeman@bbo.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Desk: 703.641.6451</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Mobile: 703.403.4263</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Pager:
7034034263@message.bam.com</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> jforeman@bbo.com
[mailto:jforeman@bbo.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 09, 2001 2:35
PM<BR><B>To:</B> ppml@arin.net<BR><B>Subject:</B> /24 assignments to
multi-homed customers who can't justify the us e of >126 hosts in 3-6
months<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>All,</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>For a customer of an ISP that meets the
following criteria:</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>1) has registered an ASN and will be
multi-homed to two or more ISPs,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>2)
cannot reasonably justify the use of a /24 within 3 - 6 months based on
ARIN IP allocation policies and</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>3) the
customer is obtaining IP space from one of their ISPs.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>In my view, such a customer will require at
least a /24 so that their network advertisement will be accepted by all
ISPs since most ISPs will not accept advertisements from their peers
of networks have a netmask any longer than a /24.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Is it acceptable, in ARIN's view, to assign a
/24 to such a customer? I never came across any documentation at
www.arin.net that discusses such a situation.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks, </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jon Foreman</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>BBO - Data Install</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>jforeman@bbo.com</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Desk:
703.641.6451</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Mobile:
703.403.4263</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Pager:
7034034263@message.bam.com</FONT>
</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>