[arin-ppml] Slow summer....

Fri Jul 24 09:06:07 EDT 2026

>
> Okay, so the LLM detector can flag the post as LLM generated and the
> community can  use that information how?

That's for the individual to decide. If it were me, I would skip the email.

“AI slop” Are we back to using AI?

That is the current publicly known term for LLM-generated content, which is
alternatively known as "brain rot" content. I've never publicly seen "LLM
Slop".

Either way, nobody wants to read slop and slop is not convincing, so what
> would be the incentive to post it?

The same incentives as traditional spam email/texts for decades.

I am against, for the umpteenth time, using tools to subvert the list.

I favour LLM spam detection and flagging (bare minimum). I've said what
I've had to say. Thanks.

*--*
Best Regards
Daryll Swer
Website: daryllswer.com
<https://l.shortlink.es/l/1c708201ba14c08db4ff25ebcafded9778422075?u=2153471>

On Fri, 24 Jul 2026 at 18:25, Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com> wrote:

> Thanks Daryll, for the conversation.
>
>
>
> Okay, so the LLM detector can flag the post as LLM generated and the
> community can  use that information how?
>
>
>
> “AI slop” Are we back to using AI?
>
> Either way, nobody wants to read slop and slop is not convincing, so what
> would be the incentive to post it?
>
>
>
> I am against, for the umpteenth time, using tools to subvert the list.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Daryll Swer <contact at daryllswer.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2026 8:50 AM
> *To:* Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com>
> *Cc:* Mike Burns <mike at sum.net>; Fernando Frediani <fhfrediani at gmail.com>;
> arin-ppml at arin.net
> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] Slow summer....
>
>
>
> Is it your position that it is okay for a poster to use an LLM to read the
> list and create an argument that the poster then proffers to the list?
>
> Since it's inevitable, my position is that the poster declares, "I used an
> LLM to generate the argument below/above".
>
>
>
> Or that we should rely on LLM-detection outrunning LLM content generation
> to filter LLM-sourced content?
>
> LLM-detection still should be enabled to flag (if not outright filter).
>
>
>
>  My  underlying point remains. It does not matter the source of the
> argument made in a post.
>
> Only the argument matters, so why use LLM to filter out arguments?
>
> So that we avoid wasting time reading AI slop just to arrive at the
> conclusion "Ah, yes, AI slop" 6 minutes later.
>
>
> *--*
>
> Best Regards
>
> Daryll Swer
>
> Website: daryllswer.com
> <https://l.shortlink.es/l/6ef80e42010b5b5888f75ae9d9f0421bf8f69b9f?u=2153471>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2026 at 18:13, Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Daryll,
>
>
>
> “Autonomous”  “Surprisingly elegant” “Groundbreaking”
>
>
>
> I think a visit to the footnote links would be beneficial.
>
> But it is besides the point.
>
>
>
> We know LLMs are getting better.
>
>
>
> Is it your position that it is okay for a poster to use an LLM to read the
> list and create an argument that the poster then proffers to the list?
>
> Or that we should rely on LLM-detection outrunning LLM content generation
> to filter LLM-sourced content?
>
>
>
> My  underlying point remains. It does not matter the source of the
> argument made in a post.
>
> Only the argument matters, so why use LLM to filter out arguments?
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Daryll Swer <contact at daryllswer.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2026 8:29 AM
> *To:* Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com>
> *Cc:* Mike Burns <mike at sum.net>; Fernando Frediani <fhfrediani at gmail.com>;
> arin-ppml at arin.net
> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] Slow summer....
>
>
>
> Yes, I have read about using LLMs to detect LLMs, although at this point I
> think we humans can still do that effectively.
>
> Long-term, LLM-based spam detection is the way.
>
>
>
> Yes, AI has solved several significant unsolved math problems. Notable
> breakthroughs include:
>
> The Planar Unit Distance Problem: An internal OpenAI model autonomously
> solved this 80-year-old problem posed by Paul Erdős. The AI disproved a
> central conjecture in discrete geometry, producing a 125-page "chain of
> thought" that top mathematicians—including Fields Medalist Timothy
> Gowers—verified as groundbreaking. [1, 2, 3, 4]
> The Erdős Primitive Set Conjecture: An AI model solved this problem in
> about 80 minutes, using classical number theory tools to produce a proof
> celebrated by experts as surprisingly elegant. [1]
> Various Erdős Problems: Google DeepMind and various researchers have used
> AI tools to solve dozens of lesser-known or partial unsolved problems and
> conjectures left behind by Paul Erdős. [1, 2]
> Matrix Multiplication: AI systems like AlphaEvolve autonomously discovered
> faster matrix multiplication algorithms, achieving the first major
> improvement in 50 years. [1]
>
>
>
> One can't say LLMs solved these problems with *zero* human involvement or
> intervention on any level; plenty of human work hours were involved in part
> of the process.
>
>
>
> *--*
>
> Best Regards
>
> Daryll Swer
>
> Website: daryllswer.com
> <https://l.shortlink.es/l/4e5ef9300a2918b334ac7bfa070d3caf4d0f3c81?u=2153471>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2026 at 17:51, Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com> wrote:
>
> HI Daryll,
>
>
>
> Yes, I have read about using LLMs to detect LLMs, although at this point I
> think we humans can still do that effectively.
>
>
>
> For example, the text below above my salutation is obviously LLM generated
> and speaks to your point about the current limits of LLMs.
>
>
>
> Yes, AI has solved several significant unsolved math problems. Notable
> breakthroughs include:
>
>    - *The Planar Unit Distance Problem:* An internal OpenAI model
>    autonomously solved this 80-year-old problem posed by Paul Erdős. The AI
>    disproved a central conjecture in discrete geometry, producing a 125-page
>    "chain of thought" that top mathematicians—including Fields Medalist
>    Timothy Gowers—verified as groundbreaking. [1
>    <https://l.shortlink.es/l/96bef505df831f771a42ef829ecfbd452520339c?u=2153471>,
>    2
>    <https://l.shortlink.es/l/c9b561e9daa96c46e6f2b1d7a83a23121bbacef1?u=2153471>,
>    3
>    <https://l.shortlink.es/l/051e49bbc625d94c55a72c151cca455850d487ca?u=2153471>,
>    4
>    <https://l.shortlink.es/l/3e037dbf3af7e7da0fb8d4fae0d0a00056a55f95?u=2153471>
>    ]
>    - *The Erdős Primitive Set Conjecture:* An AI model solved this
>    problem in about 80 minutes, using classical number theory tools to produce
>    a proof celebrated by experts as surprisingly elegant. [1
>    <https://l.shortlink.es/l/eb26696ce8b221f7a75945b036e8dae1fbe700ad?u=2153471>
>    ]
>    - *Various Erdős Problems:* Google DeepMind and various researchers
>    have used AI tools to solve dozens of lesser-known or partial unsolved
>    problems and conjectures left behind by Paul Erdős. [1
>    <https://l.shortlink.es/l/fe177c039a09f23d02a382313dfd19f0e6b468d5?u=2153471>,
>    2
>    <https://l.shortlink.es/l/b11cffceb1ec2e45a90ceb48ce999b779f33b9cc?u=2153471>
>    ]
>    - *Matrix Multiplication:* AI systems like AlphaEvolve autonomously
>    discovered faster matrix multiplication algorithms, achieving the first
>    major improvement in 50 years. [1
>    <https://l.shortlink.es/l/7939d270707152cf18d12d3f066477a2e361e98f?u=2153471>
>    ]
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Daryll Swer <contact at daryllswer.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2026 8:14 AM
> *To:* Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com>
> *Cc:* Mike Burns <mike at sum.net>; Fernando Frediani <fhfrediani at gmail.com>;
> arin-ppml at arin.net
> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] Slow summer....
>
>
>
> Fair enough, and I will refer to it as LLMs so as to avoid confusion.
>
> Agreed, as of 2026, at least.
>
>
>
> Surely you have heard about LLMs solving unsolved math problems already?
>
> That's a misleading statement, to say the least. These LLMs are tools that
> constantly require human intervention to move forward. This means humans
> used LLMs to *assist* in solving some problems (including mathematics).
>
>
>
> LLMs did not solve these problems "single-handedly" with zero human
> intervention. I know, sci-fi is cool and I'd like a time machine, but let's
> stick to reality in this forum/channel.
>
>
>
> I am more concerned with the obvious path of these LLMs in the future.
>
> My point stands. You don’t know if an LLM wrote this reply to you.
>
> Agreed. Typically, some website hosting platforms use LLM itself to help
> spot or flag LLM-generated text content/spam.
>
>
>
> So perhaps, for these mailing lists - the "spam filters" need an upgrade
> to support LLM-based detection/flagging with clear UI/UX signalling to
> subscribers so they know if an email body contains potential LLM-generated
> content.
>
>
> *--*
>
> Best Regards
>
> Daryll Swer
>
> Website: daryllswer.com
> <https://l.shortlink.es/l/edc6fb5ccdcfdb521745067f235d30b8e90add56?u=2153471>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2026 at 17:36, Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Daryll,
>
>
>
> Fair enough, and I will refer to it as LLMs so as to avoid confusion.
>
> Surely you have heard about LLMs solving unsolved math problems already?
>
> I am more concerned with the obvious path of these LLMs in the future.
>
>
>
> My point stands. You don’t know if an LLM wrote this reply to  you.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Daryll Swer <contact at daryllswer.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2026 8:03 AM
> *To:* Mike Burns <mike at sum.net>
> *Cc:* Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com>; Fernando Frediani <
> fhfrediani at gmail.com>; arin-ppml at arin.net
> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] Slow summer....
>
>
>
> In this peculiar type of forum how would you know whether you have seen it?
>
>
>
> Which medical/neuroscience institute has verified that "AI" (something
> adjacent to, equivalent to, or surpassing the human brain) exists in the
> public domain?
>
>
>
> I think you're conflating "AI" (which no authority has yet verified exists
> in the public domain) with LLMs and slop.
>
>
>
> There's nothing to see regarding something that does not currently exist
> in the public domain.
>
>
> *--*
>
> Best Regards
>
> Daryll Swer
>
> Website: daryllswer.com
> <https://l.shortlink.es/l/38fb91dd4be6732199adbfa97771a871b07dbfeb?u=2153471>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2026 at 17:25, Mike Burns <mike at sum.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Daryll,
>
>
>
> In this peculiar type of forum how would you know whether you have seen it?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Galaxy
>
>
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
>
> From: Daryll Swer <contact at daryllswer.com>
>
> Date: 7/24/26 3:57 AM (GMT-05:00)
>
> To: Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com>
>
> Cc: Fernando Frediani <fhfrediani at gmail.com>, arin-ppml at arin.net
>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Slow summer....
>
>
>
> > the best arguments if they come from AI
>
> I've yet to see such an incident. And to my knowledge, "AI" isn't publicly
> available yet; we only have LLMs.
>
>
> *--*
>
> Best Regards
>
> Daryll Swer
>
> Website: daryllswer.com
> <https://l.shortlink.es/l/8ca45c7b170af55b883b29adc1a353d0ae727d00?u=2153471>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2026 at 02:33, Mike Burns via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Fernando,
>
>
>
> I welcome your thoughts.
>
> It may get harder and harder to distinguish between polish and outright
> verbatim echoing of AI posts by a human interlocutor.
>
> The open mailing list is designed to solicit the best arguments, should we
> ignore the best arguments if they come from AI?
>
>
>
> It seems likely to be that we will be dealing with this situation at some
> point.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> *On Behalf Of *Fernando
> Frediani
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2026 1:49 PM
> *To:* arin-ppml at arin.net
> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] Slow summer....
>
>
>
> Surely no AI should post in a human discussion mail list. It doesn't make
> much sense
> If people want to use AI to polish their text no problem, as long messages
> are reviewed and sent by humans.
>
> Mail list should not be treated a destination for automated systems to
> send message, just for human discussions.
>
> Fernando
>
> On 7/23/2026 2:09 PM, Mike Burns via ARIN-PPML wrote:
>
> Hello List,
>
>
>
> Based on a current discussion on the AFRINIC policy development list, I
> wanted to discuss the use of AI to post to policy lists.
>
>
>
> Because these are open forums handled by email, it is quite trivial for
> any AI to be echoed to the list by a real person, or even post directly in
> the guise of a real person.
>
> I have used translators to help me post, I expect more and more will use
> AI to polish, if not create their posts.
>
>
>
> So simply banning use of AI is not the answer, but it brings up some
> questions.
>
>
>
> Is this the camel’s nose of AI into human government?
>
> Should we empower an AI to post directly, or be callable like ask grok?
>
> Should we treat the AI posts just like any other post?
>
>
>
> I am not discussing abuse of the list through repeated  AI posts restating
> the same argument and I assume lists have existing tools to exclude certain
> posters who do abuse.
>
>
>
> Any thoughts on using AI on stakerholder governance lists?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
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>
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