[arin-ppml] Revised - Draft Policy ARIN-2025-1: Clarify ISP and LIR Definitions and References to Address Ambiguity in NRPM Text

[Mohibul Mahmud]

Hello everyone,



Thank you for the continued thoughtful discussion on this draft policy. The
core challenge is balancing global precision (the “LIR” term of art)
with regional
accessibility and consistency (the “ISP” label used in ARIN’s operations
and documentation).



A practical example of how this balance is handled elsewhere comes from the
DNS community. Both ICANN and the IETF distinguish between “authoritative
name server” (precise, technical role) and the broader term “name server”
or “DNS server” (commonly used in general documentation). For example:



   - ICANN’s glossary provides a specific definition of “authoritative name
   server.”

https://www.icann.org/en/icann-acronyms-and-terms/authoritative-name-server-en?utm_source=chatgpt.com#:~:text=A-,authoritative%20name%20server,-A%20Domain%20Name



   - IETF RFC 9499 <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc9499/> notes that
   both authoritative servers and resolvers are “often called DNS servers or
   name servers, even though they serve different roles.”


https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc9499/?utm_source=chatgpt.com#:~:text=often%20called%0A%20%20%20%22DNS%20servers%22%20and%20%22name%20servers%22%20even%20though%20they%20serve%20different%0A%20%20%20roles



This model works because the precise role is rigorously defined, while the
common terminology remains usable for general understanding.



I suggest ARIN adopt a similar dual-term approach:

   1. In NRPM text: Use “ISP (LIR)” on first reference in sections, then
   “ISP” with the clarified meaning.
   2. Glossary definition: Add an NRPM glossary entry: “ISP: For the
   purposes of this document, ISP is equivalent to Local Internet Registry
   (LIR).”
   3. Operational consistency: Continue using “ISP” in templates, guides,
   and ARIN’s website, backed by the clarified definition.



This approach addresses the ambiguity directly. It acknowledges the global
standard (LIR) while respecting ARIN’s established conventions (ISP),
ensuring the policy is both precise for experts and accessible to newcomers.



Would the authors and community be open to incorporating this kind of
dual-term definition into the draft policy text?



Best regards,

Mohibul Mahmud





On Sat, Sep 20, 2025 at 10:32 PM Jon Lewis <jlewis at lewis.org> wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Sep 2025, David Farmer via ARIN-PPML wrote:
>
> > Please explain what is confusing about the current usage of both LIR and
> ISP?
> > The following Blog post from ARIN seems perfectly straightforward to me;
> >  https://www.arin.net/blog/2023/02/28/ISP-or-end-user/
> >
> > And the following page is about Requesting IP addresses.
> > https://www.arin.net/resources/guide/request/
> >
> >
> > They both seem to address the idea that LIR and ISP are effectively the
> same thing.
>
> Just a week ago, I asked if someone could give examples of how an ARIN
> member could be an LIR and not be an ISP, and was told "there are ways".
>
> The page referenced above is confusing, because it simultaneously says ISP
> = LIR and LIR != ISP.  If an LIR is "generally" an ISP, then that suggests
> there are circumstances in which an LIR is not an ISP.
>
> From the page:
>
>   Let’s start by defining the elephant in the room: Local Internet Registry
>   (LIR). In short, an LIR is an Internet Service Provider (ISP). As defined
>   in ARIN’s Number Resource Policy Manual (NRPM):
>
>   “A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that primarily assigns address
>   space to the users of the network services that it provides. LIRs are
>   generally Internet Service Providers (ISPs), whose customers are
>   primarily end users and possibly other ISPs.”
>
>   You may find that ARIN and many members of the community use ISP and LIR
>   interchangeably in conversation. So, when someone says “ISP,” you can
>   think of that as “ISP/LIR.”
>
> So, which is it?  ISP and LIR are the same thing, or all ISPs with direct
> allocations can be LIRs (but don't have to be), but not all LIRs are ISPs?
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Jon Lewis, MCP :)              |  I route
>   Blue Stream Fiber, Sr. Neteng  |  therefore you are
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