[arin-ppml] Feedback Request: Policy ARIN-2024-6: 6.5.1a Definition Update

Owen DeLong owen at delong.com
Sat Jun 22 22:10:58 EDT 2024 


> On Jun 22, 2024, at 10:09, John Santos <john at egh.com> wrote:
> 
> I don't know if ISP and LIR are truly identical in meaning throughout the NRPM and if not, then a global change would be a policy change and every instance of that change should be considered and debated explicitly.  It would definitely NOT be a mere editorial change.

No-one is proposing any of this as editorial to the best of my knowledge.

> However that does appear to be the case for Section 6.5, and clarifying that (versus the current ambiguous wording) is important and matches, as far as I can tell, both community and ARIN's current understanding and procedures  This clarification should be made.  But the proposed substitution of "section" for "document" is still ambiguous which Andrew's proposed wording resolves.  I support his sensible proposal.

Actually, that applies universally to section 6 (unless something added after 6.5.1 has somehow muddied the waters.

> Nothing says we can't review the entire NPRM later and determine that each and every instance of "ISP" and "LIR" should be treated identically and every instance of "ISP" should be changed to "LIR", OR  that the NPRM would be clearer if such a change was made, with exceptions noted in a few instances where LIRs and ISPs should be treated differently, OR that there are cases where LIRs and ISPs are currently treated differently, but the community wants to change policy so they are no longer different, but any of these policy changes is much broader than the current proposal and should be a separate proposal, not shoe-horned into this one.

Since this isn’t editorial, nothing says we couldn’t do the whole thing now instead of kicking the can yet again.

I favor finally dealing with this since it’s been an issue pretty much since the original 6.5.1 which was back in the relatively early days of my time on the AC.

Owen

> 
> 
> On 6/20/2024 5:33 PM, Andrew Dul via ARIN-PPML wrote:
>> If the intent is for the definition in 6.5.1a to apply only 6.5, then the text of the proposal should probably be updated to reflect the specific section to which the defintion applys not a generic 'section'.
>> 6.5.1a should then read
>> The terms ISP and LIR are used interchangeably in section 6.5 and any use of either term shall be construed to include both meanings.
>> Hope this helps,
>> Andrew
>> On 6/19/24 5:23 PM, Douglas Camin wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bill & Cathy –
>>> 
>>> The policy proposal is intended to correct what is regarded as an editorial error. When Section 6.5.1a was added, it is believed the intention was for it to apply to the “section” (Section 6.5) only, and is interpreted that way in practice. However, it was written with the word “document,” which could unintentionally allow someone to suggest it implies a larger context (the whole of NRPM.)
>>> 
>>> This proposal seeks to clarify by adjusting the language in 6.5.1a to explicitly state that everything in Section 6.5 applies to both LIRs and ISPs, even though the language of the section only uses the term LIR. Elsewhere in NRPM there are distinctions between LIRs and ISPs that are relevant for policy implementation and, as a result, there is a distinction between LIR and ISP in those contexts.
>>> 
>>> To think about it holistically – for all sections of NRPM aside from 6.5, LIRs and ISPs have distinct differences. Inside of Section 6.5, anywhere it references an LIR, that policy also applies to an ISP. This policy changes the word “Document” to “Section” to ensure there is no confusion about that.
>>> 
>>> Hope that helps –
>>> 
>>> Doug
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Douglas J. Camin
>>> 
>>> Member, ARIN Advisory Council
>>> 
>>> doug at dougcamin.com
>>> 
>>> *From: *ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> on behalf of Cj Aronson <cja at daydream.com>
>>> *Date: *Wednesday, June 19, 2024 at 5:08 PM
>>> *To: *Knowles Consulting <admin at kcgbahamas.com>
>>> *Cc: *PPML <arin-ppml at arin.net>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [arin-ppml] Feedback Request: Policy ARIN-2024-6: 6.5.1a Definition Update
>>> 
>>> I think the question is why are you replacing "document" with "section"?  So is LIR not used in the rest of the "document"?  If it is then doesn't it still mean what it means in this "section"?
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
>>> ----Cathy
>>> 
>>> {Ô,Ô}
>>> 
>>>   (( ))
>>> 
>>>   ◊  ◊
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jun 19, 2024 at 3:01 PM Knowles Consulting <admin at kcgbahamas.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>    Hi William,
>>> 
>>>    This particular change is only to the actual word used.
>>> 
>>>    The proposal seeks to replace the word “document“ with “section”.
>>> 
>>>    So as it pertains to that section in policy both terms can be used.
>>> 
>>>    Hope that helps.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>    Sent from a mobile device. Please excuse brevity and typos
>>> 
>>> 
>>>    > On Jun 19, 2024, at 4:51 PM, William Herrin <bill at herrin.us> wrote:
>>>    >
>>>    > On Wed, Jun 19, 2024 at 12:15 PM Douglas Camin <doug at dougcamin.com> wrote:
>>>    >> Change the text from:
>>>    >>
>>>    >> The terms ISP and LIR are used interchangeably in this document and any
>>>    use of either term shall be construed to include both meanings.
>>>    >>
>>>    >> to
>>>    >>
>>>    >> The terms ISP and LIR are used interchangeably in this SECTION and any
>>>    use of either term shall be construed to include both meanings.
>>>    >
>>>    > Howdy,
>>>    >
>>>    > I'm confused. Are you saying you want LIR and ISP to mean different
>>>    > things depending on where they appear in the NRPM document?
>>>    >
>>>    > Regards,
>>>    > Bill Herrin
>>>    >
>>>    >
>>>    > --
>>>    > William Herrin
>>>    > bill at herrin.us
>>>    > https://bill.herrin.us/
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> 
> -- 
> John Santos
> Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
> 781-861-0670 ext 539
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