[arin-ppml] Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2021-8: Deprecation of the ‘Autonomous System Originations’ Field

[Matt Erculiani]

Hi Owen,

If what you say is true about this mostly being a cleanup operation, then
my only question is...why?

I don't see anything broken here, I just see the possibility of things
breaking;  that is what has me concerned.

The fact is, we cannot know what the fallout will be until it happens. Are
we willing to take the chance?

-Matt


On Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 18:05 Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Oct 31, 2022, at 15:03, Matt Erculiani <merculiani at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I fully stand by my comments made in-person. I do not support this policy.
>
> I do not believe making this data harder to access particularly benefits
> anyone. If this is a technical challenge that ARIN faces serving this data
> at the volume it is requested, perhaps system augmentation is necessary to
> support the query load. Perhaps a much lower threshold for throttling might
> be a better, cheaper, option.
>
>
> This wouldn’t make the data any more difficult to access, just eliminates
> yet another duplication of data that tends to drift out of date.
>
> If the concern is that there are some "top-talkers" using this field to
> construct prefix filters or similar with automation, perhaps ARIN can
> petition those organizations directly to use the bulk feed, instead of just
> taking it away and forcing their hand.
>
>
> I don’t think this is about burdens on ARIN’s whois servers. This is about
> the fact that this source of this data is largely deprecated and that
> as an optional field, it tends to be poorly maintained (if it gets
> maintained at all). There are much better sources available.
>
> Worst case scenario, those who previously relied on this field ignore the
> guidance, as they have been, may introduce additional queries per second to
> get around the missing data, further exacerbating the problem this policy
> set out to fix.
>
>
> I think what you are considering the “problem this policy set out to fix”
> is a second order effect at best. I view this policy as a database cleanup
> effort and as such, I support it.
>
> I don't think everyone on the Internet would come away from this
> completely unscathed. If we're lucky, the fallout will be fairly isolated.
>
>
> I doubt that there will be much damage beyond what already occurs if
> anyone relies on this data. IMHO, no data is better than bad data.
> Today, that field is largely bad data, where it provides data at all.
>
> Owen
>
>
> -Matt
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 11:07 AM ARIN <info at arin.net> wrote:
>
>> On 21 October 2022, the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) advanced the following
>> Draft Policy to Recommended Draft Policy status:
>>
>>
>>
>> * ARIN-2021-8: Deprecation of the ‘Autonomous System Originations’ Field
>>
>>
>>
>> The text of the Recommended Draft Policy is below, and may also be found
>> at:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2021_8/
>>
>>
>>
>> You are encouraged to discuss all Recommended Draft Policies on PPML
>> prior to their presentation at the next ARIN Public Policy Consultation
>> (PPC). PPML and PPC discussions are invaluable to the AC when determining
>> community consensus.
>>
>>
>>
>> The PDP can be found at:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/
>>
>>
>>
>> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Sean Hopkins
>>
>> Senior Policy Analyst
>>
>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2021-8: Deprecation of the ‘Autonomous
>> System Originations’ Field
>>
>>
>>
>> AC Assessment of Conformance with the Principles of Internet Number
>> Resource Policy:
>>
>>
>>
>> Based on community feedback and AC discussion we motion to move
>> ARIN-2021-8: Deprecation of the 'Autonomous System Originations' Field to
>> Recommended Draft, with the following change to Language: The removal of
>> 'OriginAs' fields from December 31st 2024 to 24 months after board adoption.
>>
>>
>>
>> Problem Statement:
>>
>>
>>
>> In the last two decades, ARIN has developed multiple services which
>> provide mechanisms for Internet Number Resource holders to publish
>> information about their routing intentions.
>>
>>
>>
>> The optional 'OriginAS' field was invented before RPKI existed in
>> practice.  At that time, ARIN's Internet Routing Registry (IRR) followed a
>> weak authorization model compared to available and in use today such as
>> RPKI. The 'OriginAS' data was an improvement compared the other mechanisms
>> that were available at that time.
>>
>>
>>
>> However, there are issues with the consumption of the data in the
>> OriginAS field:
>>
>>
>>
>> Consuming the 'OriginAS' field in a high-scale automated pipeline is
>> challenging. The consumer needs to enter into a 'Bulk Whois Data' agreement
>> with ARIN, download a multiple-gigabytes XML file (which is only generated
>> once a day), parse this XML file, and then extract the OriginAS field.
>> Querying objects one-by-one via the HTTPS interface does not scale well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Policy statement:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. Remove Section 3.5 “Autonomous System Originations” of the NRPM in its
>> entirety.
>>
>> 2. Remove the ‘OriginAS’ field from the database
>>
>>
>>
>> Timetable for implementation:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. Removal of  section 3.5: Immediate after ARIN Board adoption.
>>
>> 2. Removal of the ‘OriginAS’ field from the database: 24 months after
>> ARIN Board adoption.
>>
>>
>>
>> Policy Term: Permanent
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
> --
> Matt Erculiani
> ERCUL-ARIN
> _______________________________________________
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