[arin-ppml] Deceased Companies?

Ronald F. Guilmette rfg at tristatelogic.com
Mon Jul 25 17:50:21 EDT 2022


In message <91F20ECC-6DE8-4DE7-822C-B3436465E896 at arin.net>, 
John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:

>> So I ask again, where is the justification, either in legal principals or in the
>> actual text of the RSA that says that George retains (or obtains) _any_ interest
>> in the /24 upon the death of George's LLC?  The way I read the plain language of
>> the RSA, all claims, rights, and titles to the /24 must necessarily pass back to
>> ARIN upon the death of the LLC, if for no other reason, then at least for the
>> obviious reason that "The Holder" no longer exists and thus can no longer pay the
>> annual fees.
>
>Wonderful logic.  I'll note that telecommunications companies routinely consolidate, and 
>that it is quite possible that invoices will paid from an account other than one that signed 
>the ARIN agreement. (Given how some organizations are about updating their merger 
>records, any other position would be irresponsible...) 

This is a clear evasion of the question John.

I have not asked you to comment on the convenience, or lack thereof, to some unspecified
_merging_ telecommunications companies, or whether it is nicest for them to make payments
to ARIN in this manner or in that manner.  My question was, I think, both clear and specific.
It was about a legal entity that has simply ceased to exist, and _not_ because it was
merged into some other legal entity.

Please answer the question that I did ask, and not the one that you would have preferred
me to ask.  I will state it again, so that there will be no confusion:

Where is the justification, either in legal principals or in the actual text of the RSA
that says that George retains (or obtains) _any_ interest in the /24 upon the death of
George's LLC? 

Section 8.2. of the NRPM covers "Mergers, Acquisitions, and Reorganizations".  The policies
and procedures that are to be applied in all of those situations are quite clearly set
forth there.  Section 8.2. of the NRPM quite clearly *does not* cover dissolutions.
Please provide a straight answer to the question I did ask, which related to dissolution
situations.

Where is the justification, either in legal principals or in the actual text of the RSA
that says that George retains (or obtains) _any_ interest in the /24 upon the death of
George's LLC?

You have also cleverly evaded answering my other clear and straightforward question
entirely, so you oblige me to state that one again also, and hope again for some
answer that is not deliberately evasive.

>>> I suspect that the Registration Services Helpdesk would ask that
>>> George register TMBBATS as a sole proprietorship, provide an appropriate attestation of 
>>> the events, and update the records accordingly. 
>> 
>> Well, that's a part of my question:  Would they?  When would they?  Why would they?
>
>Yes, RSD would handle accordingly - there is no reason not to, particularly given that the 
>address block is presently utilized and there is no other party claiming they hold the rights. 

You are being deliberately obtuse and evading the question.  If the hypothetical TMBBATS LLC
goes belly up, then when will the Registration Services Helpdesk, or any other part of ARIN
even notice this fact and take some action (i.e. ANY action)?  After 1 year?  After 2 years?
After 10 years?  Ever?

The evidence that I am looking at confirms that ARIN is not lifting a finger to clean
the stables of all of the dead and defunct resource holding members, ever.  As much as
you would like to distract from that central fact by injecting irrelevancies about mergers
and/or the wonderful helpfulness of Registration Services Helpdesk, reality is still
reality, and if you had anything positive to say about ARIN's approach to the problem
of dead companies cluttering up your books then you would have said it by now, rather
than just trying to change the subject.


Regards,
rfg


P.S.  You wrote:

     "It is interesting - people alternately accuse ARIN of being hard to satisfy, and then express 
     surprise when we go above and beyond to accommodate people attempting to clean up the registration
     records..."

I, for one, have never accused ARIN of being too hard.  An indeed the evidence from both my own
research *and* multiple federal criminal cases all shows unambiguously that ARIN is, if anything,
an easy mark... a sucker and a pushover for anyone with a good song and dance and the right re-
registered domain name(s).


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