[arin-ppml] Deceased Companies?

Paul E McNary pmcnary at cameron.net
Mon Jul 25 15:58:21 EDT 2022

I think we are talking about number resources here not the individual numbers. 
Predecessor entities (pre ARIN) made commitments for the "Number Resources" that were allocated. 
ARIN assumed those responsibilities and commitments and agreed not to alter them. ie. continue to route "all" number resources that had been previously assigned by Pre-ARIN entities. ARIN keeps trying to stop honoring or threaten to stop honoring these agreed to commitments they made. 

From: "Matthew Petach" <mpetach at netflight.com> 
To: "pmcnary" <pmcnary at cameron.net> 
Cc: "William Herrin" <bill at herrin.us>, "arin-ppml" <arin-ppml at arin.net> 
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2022 2:46:29 PM 
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Deceased Companies? 

Oy vey. 

We've had this discussion before. 

You can't lay a property claim to a number. 

Google can't "buy" the number googol, and charge people a license fee to use it 
every time they count that high. 

I can't "own" the number "pi" and charge everyone who tries to make a circle 
using it a licensing fee. 

I don't "own" my telephone number, and can't sue phone spammers for spoofing 
it when they robocall other people. 

IP addresses are just binary numbers. That's it. 

You can't own numbers. 

All those networks that ran out of RFC 1918 space and were squatting on government 
blocks? Not guilty of theft, because the addresses aren't property: 
[ https://www.arin.net/blog/2015/11/23/to-squat-or-not-to-squat/ | https://www.arin.net/blog/2015/11/23/to-squat-or-not-to-squat/ ] 

I know I've configured number resources in my internal networks 
that didn't belong to me, and no IP police came busting down my 

What matters isn't the IP number resources, it's the agreement 
among the community that there will be a coordinated and accepted 
injection of those number resources into the global routing table. 

Using someone else's IP space internally doesn't matter one whit. 

What *does* matter is when you start injecting entries into the global 
routing table that go against what the database of record says should 
be there. 

And that's why John is so explicit that what ARIN is keeping updated 
is the single source of truth for what the community has agreed belongs 
in the routing table. 

But if I configure your number resources internally in my network, good 
luck finding any judge that will rule that I have somehow stolen your 
property by configuring a binary number in my network devices. 

Number resources are just integers, and nobody can lay claim of 
property ownership on an integer. 

End of story. 


On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 12:20 PM Paul E McNary via ARIN-PPML < [ mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net | arin-ppml at arin.net ] > wrote: 

That is why I always say John uses "Inside The Beltway" Non-Responsive language. 
He just stated to me that number resources are probate-able. 
That means something that has value to the estate or heirs. 
Normally property. Legacy resources were issued without contract. 
So contract law is not valid and it would be over 25 years old. 
So property law should attach. 
I think I hear John saying that, but I need an interpreter/lawyer for anything John says. 
You asked him a specific question with a non-responsive answer as I always get from him. 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "William Herrin" < [ mailto:bill at herrin.us | bill at herrin.us ] > 
To: "pmcnary" < [ mailto:pmcnary at cameron.net | pmcnary at cameron.net ] > 
Cc: "Fernando Frediani" < [ mailto:fhfrediani at gmail.com | fhfrediani at gmail.com ] >, "arin-ppml" < [ mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net | arin-ppml at arin.net ] > 
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2022 2:12:39 PM 
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Deceased Companies? 

On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 11:18 AM Paul E McNary < [ mailto:pmcnary at cameron.net | pmcnary at cameron.net ] > wrote: 
> Then why the threat? 

Hi Paul, 

In my opinion? ARIN has a legal house of cards built on the premise 
that there are no property rights in IP addresses. It's "true" until a 
court says otherwise so they want to give the court as few reasons as 
possible to say otherwise. Like any legal threat, the idea is to keep 
the matter out of court be gaining compliance. 

Bill Herrin 

For hire. [ https://bill.herrin.us/resume/ | https://bill.herrin.us/resume/ ] 
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