[arin-ppml] Deceased Companies

Aaron Dudek adudek16 at gmail.com
Tue Aug 9 11:30:41 EDT 2022

On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 10:18 PM Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm at ipinc.net> wrote:

> On 8/8/2022 6:24 PM, Jay Hennigan wrote:
> > On 8/8/22 16:11, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> >
> >> LargeCo that has an /8 cannot go to an ISP like, for example, Comcast
> >> and request so much as a /29 from Comcast's own pool to stick on the
> >> outside of a network address translator UNLESS they justify
> >> utilization of that /8
> >
> > Sure they can. What's stopping them? Their cash spends just the same as
> > that of any other Comcast customer.
> Read the NRPM.  Comcast is required to justify utilization to ARIN for
> the IP they hand out.  If they are handing out IP to an org that has a
> massive amount and is acting like a jackhole and claiming some
> untraconservative Trumpian attitude of "f off I can do what I want"
> then ARIN can tell Comcast "sorry but no more IPv4 for you, you are in
> violation of your signed agreements"
> Does this happen in practice?  I doubt it since a /29 is small enough to
> fly under the radar.  But the agreements are pretty clear that ARIN can
> hold up any sort of transfer or whatever that would increase Comcast's
> amount of IPv4 if Comcast is not meeting utilization requirements for
> the IP they have, which would include that /29.
> >
> > I don't think there's anything in Comcast's or any other ISP's contract
> > language requiring customers to affirm that they aren't sitting on large
> > blocks of legacy IPv4 space before they'll provide IPs to you.
> >
> Actually yes there is.  When I last connected my own block (the IP that
> this email is originating from you can look it up if you want) to
> Comcast using a /28 I absolutely had to provide justification for
> utilization.

Assuming that the block is yours from ARIN, which you state, there is no
need for Comcast to require this information from you.
Since the block is yours, Comcast does not have to SWIP anything.
That might be a business decision by Comcast, but it is not a requirement
from ARIN to make Comcast ask this information, unless requesting addresses
from Comcast.
This all changes if you are asking for more address space. But each ISP has
their own policies.
Some will give an address block, /28, out with a circuit, some do not. I
cannot/do not speak for them.

> I would have be lying to Comcast when filling out the utilization form
> if I had a /8 sitting around unused.  That could be used by Comcast to
> void my agreement with Comcast.  And for sure if ARIN came to Comcast
> and said "why are you giving those jackholes MORE numbers they have an
> /8 already"  (translation, Jump) I assure you, Comcast would say back to
> ARIN "how high"
> I can't speak for what other ISPs do but I doubt they are just going to
> hand out IPs without requiring utilization justification.

I think this depends on the team doing the allocations. Some maybe more
strict/through than others.

> > And, as a practical matter, if some remote AT&T office far from AT&T
> > infrastructure needs a /29, how do you propose that Comcast route a /29
> > originating in AT&T's 12/8 to that remote facility?
> >
> Consider that Comcast already does this for IPv6, yes.  When I use
> DHCP-PD to register an IPv6 block in my Comcast modem their modem starts
> announcing it into their network.  It's iBGP not eBGP.  They only have
> to announce the /8 via eBGP.  And this is a tiny tiny block.

> >> So no, you are NOT correct.  It IS ARIN's business what you are doing
> >> with your large legacy block.
> >
> > If you haven't signed an LRSA, how is it any of ARIN's business what you
> > do with your legacy block?
> >
> It isn't as long as you are not connecting to the Internet.  But that
> wasn't what I was talking about.  Pay attention, 007.

If a company has a block assigned, assuming legacy here, and they don't
have an RSA with ARIN because they haven't needed any of their services,
ARIN is not in the picture really.
ARIN has 0 ability to tell ISPs what addresses they can or cannot accept
from a company. Not everyone uses RADB or keeps it updated, that is the
company/ISP decision.
Should they, yes. Should everyone verify what is being announced is
actually correct, yes. But that is now BCP area and still 0 to do with ARIN.
All ARIN can do is say, yes they have been allocated the addresses. That is

> Ted
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