[arin-ppml] Deceased Companies

Mark Andrews marka at isc.org
Sat Aug 6 18:47:01 EDT 2022


And if you feel like it you can filter all announcements for those entities that fail to keep their POCs current. If enough do that then there will be back pressure to cause the entity to rectify the situation if they are using the addresses publically.  Also the addresses can’t be used by scammers if they are filtered.  If you do this update your filters quickly on POCs being updated. 

-- 
Mark Andrews

> On 7 Aug 2022, at 06:27, Steven Ryerse <SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com> wrote:
> 
> The many posts to the PPML reflect your desire to somehow reclaim Legacy IPv4 space that isn't being used or space that might have been acquired in a way that is deemed unethical or possibly worse.  As you may know, these subjects have been discussed many many times ad nauseum in this PPML since the time ARIN was formed.  ARIN does pursue transactions that are reported as fraudulent as evidenced by the multiple press releases dealing with fraud and the courts - that have been described in press releases in recent years shared on the PPML - so it appears the desire to follow up such reports is already a function that ARIN pursues when appropriate.  I've seen each press release describing these cases have been applauded by many in this community and I applaud them as well.  
> 
> With all due respect, as for reclaiming Legacy blocks - some of those original Class A blocks (/8's) were awarded to 800 pound gorillas with unlimited deep pockets to pay their on-staff attorneys. I haven’t looked at the list lately but there were organizations like AT&T, IBM, Ford and even the Department of Defense had at least two /8’s - and if I recall Great Britain was awarded two /8’s back then. These all were legacy blocks awarded in the very early 90’s when the internet was new and the National Science Foundation was trying to gain acceptance of wider usage of the fledgling Internet.  
> 
> So at least some of these gorillas still have their blocks and I haven’t researched it, but at least some have never signed any legal agreement with ARIN since they got these blocks before ARIN existed - and they got them without any legalese written agreements that pertained to the blocks assigned to them. 
> 
> So if ARIN decided one day they are going to go after all of these blocks some of which are “unused” ipv4 blocks, then they would likely end up in court against an army of talented attorneys. This is not a desirable nor a positive situation for ARIN to be in. 
> 
> ARIN has to treat all legacy holders the same whether they were Class A or Class B or Class C. So I would support ARIN contacting all legacy holders in a positive manner that have not signed an agreement to see if any would voluntarily release unused resources and/or sign an agreement.  The key words in the last sentence is voluntary and positive.  However trying to take back any legacy resources by force without a signed ARIN agreement in place, or without the permission of the organization or individual the resources were awarded to doesn't make practical sense - and is fraught with possible negative consequences for ARIN.  
> 
> For the ARIN region, the only realistic way to change the dynamics and relationship between ARIN and Legacy holders without agreements would be for the US Congress to act, and this is possible but unlikely. 
> 
> Others have described the situation of Legacy Holders in the PPML as a horse that has already left the barn, and adding the fact that these 800 pound gorillas exist with their army of attorneys, short of an act of the US Congress - that horse isn't ever going back into the barn.  Better we as a community should focus on moving the Internet forward in a positive manner than get caught up with trying to somehow chase a horse we can never catch.  ARIN can of course try and contact legacy holders that are reported as "Deceased" but if they cannot reach anyone for confirmation then we will all just have to live with that block being out of usage.  Those "deceased" blocks are not causing our organization or our customers any problems we can't overcome ourselves so we don't spend any time worrying about them.  I realize the cost of IPv4 addresses keeps going up, but just as we pass along the cost of gasoline to our customers, we pass the cost of IPv4 addresses on to them as well as a cost of conducting business. 
> 
> I'm not in favor of chasing horse we can't catch.  My two cents.  😉 
> 
> 
> Steven Ryerse
> President & CEO
> 
> sryerse at eclipse-networks.com | 770.399.9099 ext. 502
> 100 Ashford Center North | Suite 110 | Atlanta, Georgia 30338
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> On Behalf Of Ronald F. Guilmette
> Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 3:30 AM
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Deceased Companies
> 
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