[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2021-6: Remove Circuit Requirement

Owen DeLong owen at delong.com
Fri Sep 24 00:41:19 EDT 2021

No worries, I think I was clear about it being speculation on my part.

Regardless of how you acquire the addresses, I think my point stands about
the fact that for the most part, leasing is making addresses available that probably
wouldn’t make it to the transfer market.


> On Sep 23, 2021, at 18:05 , Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com> wrote:
> Hi Owen,
> Actually I don't approach address owners in any way.
> I rely on incoming business.
> I was always afraid of being accused of mining Whois for commercial reasons.
> Imagine my naivete!
> Regards,
> Mike
> ---- On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 20:54:08 -0400 Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote ----
> > On Sep 23, 2021, at 16:25 , William Herrin <bill at herrin.us <mailto:bill at herrin.us>> wrote: 
> > 
> > On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 4:15 PM Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com <mailto:mike at iptrading.com>> wrote: 
> >> I add value by transferring cash to somebody else in the hope I can lease the purchased IPv4 out for a profit before China and the DoD dump addresses on the market. 
> > 
> > Hi Mike, 
> > 
> > ARIN leases addresses to you. You turn around and lease them to 
> > someone else at a higher price. You add nothing in the process, no 
> > network services or anything like that. The lessee can't rent them 
> > directly from ARIN, not because of cost or risk or whatever but ARIN 
> > doesn't have any left to rent. It's about as straightforward an 
> > example of rent seeking as you can get. 
> That’s not likely the real situation, however… 
> Likely, Mike does research and fines underutilized addresses and approaches 
> the current registrant and asks if they’d be interested in receiving MRC in 
> exchange for the ability to use those addresses. Mike then takes a risk and 
> begins paying said registrant monthly/quarterly/yearly/whatever for the 
> use of those addresses at some wholesale leasing price. Then he turns 
> around and tries to find an entity with need that (for whatever reason, 
> capital intensity, temporary need, etc.) wants to lease rather than buy 
> a block of addresses and provides them. Yes, for all the obvious reasons, 
> the price he charges to lease to his customer is higher than the price 
> he pays to his supplier, but he’s basically a retailer adding value in the 
> form of acquiring the wholesale goods and matching them to the needs 
> of the retail customer. 
> ARIN is not finding the sources of addresses who are willing to lease, 
> but not sell… ARIN Is not even finding the sources of addresses who 
> are willing to sell. Brokers are fulfilling that role for sales and are the 
> most likely ones to be fulfilling that role for leasing as well. 
> Owen 

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