[arin-ppml] Open Letter Regarding 650% Rate-Hike for Legacy Users
markm at siteserver.com
Wed Sep 15 20:02:58 EDT 2021
I get what he’s saying, but that doesn’t make it right. I’m all for more consistency in fees amongst all users - 110%. It makes sense to simplify things at ARIN, insure all users are treated equally and funding their operations. But when I’m told that ARIN is “harmonizing” it’s fees (har·mo·nize: make consistent or compatible), you lose me at raising my rates by 650% when we’re paying 64x what /8 customers are paying under this plan. It’s irrelevant what the holder of a /8 block pays ARIN per/year - they’re issued *2048x* the resources we are at 32x the cost.
ARIN is working this from the wrong end and that needs to change. Larger carriers should be given just as much incentive to reduce and conserve IP space as smaller carriers. While it’s nice to see 3 people discussing the rate hikes in a mailing list, most users don’t monitor these and rely on timely communicated information from vendors so they can comment. Some of the big telco’s have *2 decades* worth of IP’s sitting idle in reserve - and people wonder why IPv6 isn’t catching on?
To put this in perspective, it’s exactly the same as our company raising a service price from $50/mo to $3200/mo because we only have a limited amount of these services and we instead chose to sell them all for $0.19/mo to larger companies because what? We didn’t want to irritate them? It’s nuts. ARIN isn’t supposed to be a business, it’s an organization that is supposedly to be fairly distributing IP resources.
I don’t know John but he seems like a nice guy on the forums and it’s nice to see him personally involved but there’s no disputing the numbers. This isn’t the area ARIN should be focused on.
> On Sep 15, 2021, at 3:47 PM, hostmaster at uneedus.com wrote:
> I think he is saying the categories did not change. He never said that everyone pays the same. For as long as I can remember, us little ones pay LOTS more per IP than the big guys. When this is brought up, they always point out those large guys pay a whole lot more than us. What they fail to consider is that they ALSO get a better price per IP. As the example you noted, they are paying 64 times LESS per IP than your /19.
> I have always considered that unfair.
> Albert Erdmann
> Network Administrator
> Paradise On Line Inc.
> On Wed, 15 Sep 2021, Mark McDonald wrote:
>> Hi John,
>> We must be looking at different fee charts. Can you send me the one you’re referring to? We hold a /19 and fall under the “Small” service category, paying roughly
>> $0.12/IP/Year. Right off the bat, we’re in the same service category as someone holding a /18, so we’re paying twice as much per IPv4 Resource as them - but wait, it
>> gets much, much better. Those holding a /8 are paying $0.0038/IP/Year - *64X* less than our company per IPv4 resource. Someone over there failed math class if the
>> goal was to level the costs among all users.
>> If ARIN’s goal is to get everyone paying the same per/resource, our bill should go down to $31.13/year so we’re paying the same per resource as those issued /8’s.
>> For an organization that’s trying to promote IP conservation, your metrics show you’re promoting the opposite - the larger the block, the less I pay.
>> I broke it all down for you here:
>> CIDR Number of IP's Service Category Fee Fee per/IPv4 (Resource) % of full cost (/24) per/resource
>> /24 256 3X-Small $250.00 $0.9766
>> /23 512 2X-Small $500.00 $0.9766 100.00%
>> /22 1,024 2X-Small $500.00 $0.4883 50.00%
>> /21 2,048 X-Small $1,000.00 $0.4883 50.00%
>> /20 4,096 X-Small $1,000.00 $0.2441 25.00%
>> /19 8,192 Small $2,000.00 $0.2441 25.00%
>> /18 16,384 Small $2,000.00 $0.1221 12.50%
>> /17 32,768 Medium $4,000.00 $0.1221 12.50%
>> /16 65,536 Medium $4,000.00 $0.0610 6.25%
>> /15 131,072 Large $8,000.00 $0.0610 6.25%
>> /14 262,144 Large $8,000.00 $0.0305 3.13%
>> /13 524,288 X-Large $16,000.00 $0.0305 3.13%
>> /12 1,048,576 X-Large $16,000.00 $0.0153 1.56%
>> /11 2,097,152 2X-Large $32,000.00 $0.0153 1.56%
>> /10 4,194,304 2X-Large $32,000.00 $0.0076 0.78%
>> /9 8,388,608 3X-Large $64,000.00 $0.0076 0.78%
>> /8 16,777,216 3X-Large $64,000.00 $0.0038 0.39%
>> /7 33,554,432 4X-Large $128,000.00 $0.0038 0.39%
>> /6 67,108,864 4X-Large $128,000.00 $0.0019 0.20%
>> I sincerely hope ARIN re-thinks this before implementation. That’s what would be fair and equitable for all.
>> -Mark McDonald
>> Siteserver, Inc.
>> On Sep 15, 2021, at 1:05 PM, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
>> Mark -
>> In April of this year, we announced a consultation on the matter of harmonizing ARIN’s fees and many of the issues you raised were discussed at that time on the
>> ARIN-consult mailing list - https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-consult/2021-April/date.html
>> As noted in that discussion, 3621 end-user customers will see their fees decrease as a result of change. 4431 end-users (those with larger IP address holdings)
>> will see their fees increase. After the fee changes, all customers will be paying the same fees based on their total IPv4 resources held.
>> Regarding ISP/EU fees distribution, note that ARIN’s expected total fees paid in 2021 are approximately $21 million – with ISP’s paying the overwhelming
>> majority of the costs at approximately $17M annually.
>> John Curran
>> President and CEO
>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>> On 15 Sep 2021, at 3:21 PM, Mark McDonald <markm at siteserver.com> wrote:
>> Mr. Curran,
>> It’s unfortunate to learn about ARIN’s proposal to increase our rates by 650% from one year to the next from your EMail. It would have been nice to
>> receive this when this measure was being proposed. In looking through various member forums, it appears we aren’t alone. While I can appreciate
>> your desire to standardize rates between End Users and ISP’s, it’s obvious that ARIN provides a different set of services for ISP’s as it does End
>> Users. For us, ARIN stores < 50k of data in a database - similar to a Domain Registration from Network Solutions. They’re somehow able to perform
>> these services for about $9/year. ARIN has historically charged us $300/year for this service, and is now raising rates by 650% to $2000.00/year.
>> And for what? The IPv4 pool is depleted so there is no value in attempting to obtain additional IPv4 resources, while IPv6 resources are
>> limitless, and are charged accordingly.
>> For End Users, there are no ongoing SWIP assignments or ongoing actions from ARIN that require ARIN’s resources and for those that there are, ARIN
>> charges for those services (new assignments, transfers, etc). We maintain numerous resources with ARIN through a different ISP account for
>> resources used for ISP services and pay fees (and utilize services) accordingly.
>> When ARIN, or any organizational body, sends out an email stating rates are raising 650%, it makes me question how an organization that could do
>> something for a a set fee for so long suddenly can’t and needs to implement drastic measures to “recoup” these fees. It wreaks of inefficiency as
>> ARIN’s number of resources managed is going up, not down and with any business, the cost to provide services goes down as the number of customers
>> (resources) goes up.
>> I was trying to look through the ARIN organizational documents and recent Annual Reports to see how ARIN’s income is represented (percentage of ISP
>> vs End-User, RSP vs Non-RSP) as your Email lacks this important information, however I was unable to find this. It would be much appreciated if you
>> could provide it. As a user of ARIN’s services, it would be nice to see exactly how much of a rate increase this is (increasing ARIN revenue) vs
>> standardizing rates, which would re-rate *everybody* (raising some, lowering others) so that ARIN’s revenue remained neutral while equally balancing
>> costs to provide services.
>> In owning and operating businesses in the IT space, I’ve always viewed ARIN as a fair and equitable organization. Until today. Your email lacked
>> critical information that would have shown this as a “standardization of rates” vs a rate hike on what appears to be all legacy customers. Perhaps
>> the rates ARIN is charging them isn’t too low, but the rates you’re charging ISP’s is too high, or perhaps somewhere in between.
>> From the Emails I’ve already received from other parties this affects, it appears the courts will ultimately decide what is legitimate and what is
>> not, however I feel this could have all been avoided with better communication.
>> Mark McDonald
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