[arin-ppml] Change of Use and ARIN (was: Re: AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System)

Owen DeLong owen at delong.com
Mon Sep 13 13:38:36 EDT 2021



> On Sep 13, 2021, at 09:36 , Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm at ipinc.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 9/12/2021 3:37 PM, Joe Maimon wrote:
> 
>>>>> I use more. Are you going to claim that my choice not to NAT is
>>>>> somehow invalid?
>>>> In an IPv4 world, yes. It's irresponsible.
>>> That’s sort of like saying that people who bought single-family houses
>>> in urban areas should be forced into high density housing because in
>>> an urban area, it’s irresponsible to have a single-family house with a
>>> yard.
>>> 
>>> I don’t buy the argument in either case.
>> 
>> I am with you on this. Yes. its theoretically "irresponsible" but that
>> is no justification to be high handed.
> 
> Bull Pucky.  Apples to Oranges comparison.  I own a home in an urban area that has a yard.  The city is staffed with people like you who are
> desperate to have people like me to subdivide our 50x100 lot into 2 25x200 lots and build skinny houses.

I’d be really curious how you do that… I haven’t yet found a way to transform a 5,000 square foot lot into a 10,000 square foot lot through
subdivision. Can you please explain the process?

> 4 miles to the East is farmland.  I tell people like you there is
> PLENTY of buildable land for houses.  But NOT 40 blocks from city center.  I got here first, and I'm going to own my yard for the rest
> of my life.  You can move 4 miles East and also have a yard or wait for someone with a yard to sell out and move.  Deal with it.
> 
> It IS NOT irresponsible of me to keep my yard in an urban area.
> 
> But, there IS NOT mountains of empty IPv4 a few miles away.  Unlike your
> urban yard analogy IT _IS_ IRRESPONSIBLE and LAZY to not dual-stack your servers and your network.

I do dual-stack my network, but I don’t NAT the IPv4 side of it.

> As for NAT overload vs dual stack, anyone new to the game is going to
> be forced into deploying a lot of NAT overloading to carry the lazy buggers who aren't dual-stacking.

Right, but the question is whether or not it is irresponsible for me, as a user who has sufficient IPv4
holdings to use my IPv4 holdings to number individual hosts on my network rather than NAT it all
behind one address.

I argue that it’s no more irresponsible than you keeping your yard. It’s unclear whether you agree with
me about that or not.

Owen




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