[arin-ppml] Change of Use and ARIN (was: Re: AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System)
fhfrediani at gmail.com
Wed Sep 8 21:55:56 EDT 2021
Pretty good and clear explanation.
I am glad that more most people seem to reject the idea that IP leasing
may be a good or even justified thing, including for those who end up
paying for it.
On 08/09/2021 22:33, John Curran wrote:
> On 8 Sep 2021, at 5:02 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com
> <mailto:owen at delong.com>> wrote:
>> On Sep 7, 2021, at 11:03 , John Curran <jcurran at arin.net
>> <mailto:jcurran at arin.net>> wrote:
>>> The conservation principle an overall principle contained in section
>>> 1 – i.e. "1. Principles and Goals of the American Registry for
>>> Internet Numbers (ARIN)” i
>>> As such, the issuance of number resources must be for “*a technical
>>> need for them in support of operational networks."*
>> Right… And an LIR’s customers with operational networks would be such
>> a valid technical need regardless of where or how
>> that LIR’s customers connected those networks to whatever other
>> networks. What am I missing?
> Owen -
> That would be a valid technical need for IP address space, but it is
> not the ISP’s technical need driven by their operational networks
> (unless the ISP is providing some connectivity services.)
> A customer with an operational network could easily have technical
> need for additional IP address space – for example, a customer which
> has the need for additional space to grow their network can come to
> ARIN and get more space per policy.
>>> They do distribute IP addresses to their customers as a result of
>>> the provision of their network services.
>> So this is still another organization’s technical need for number
>> resources. It’s not the LIR’s need for number resources,
>> it’s their customers’ need for those resources. That’s my point.
> It is interesting how hard you try to twist interpretation against
> plain language, common sense, and ARIN’s entire history of existing
> practice – all in order to make leasing to address space to parties
> have no relation to your network services somehow now be a valid
> technical need for more address space.
> Under such a theory, the first LIR at ARIN could claim that they have
> technical need for more blocks to support their forthcoming leasing to
> all cloud providers in North America (a lot of need indeed)… The
> fact that you have business relationship with a party does not make
> _their_ technical requirements somehow into _your_ technical
> On the other hand. when an ISP connects a customer to the Internet,
> they often do need to supply some address space to the customer for
> use in the customer’s network - it might be a single IP address for a
> customer CPE, or it could be an large block because the customer wants
> all of the devices on their internal network to now have Internet
> access – i.e. precisely why they purchased Internet service. The
> address space needed by the ISP is a valid technical need because ISP
> requires it for the connectivity service being provisioned, even if
> some of it is sub-assigned and utilized on customers network
> This is common practice, and nearly everyone in the ARIN ISP community
> is both aware of it and has submitted resource requests accordingly.
>>> Principle applies the same either way. As you noted, there is a
>>> way around that - provision VPN services with IP address as a
>>> component of that service.
>> OK, so as long as GRE tunnels that never actually carry traffic are
>> created as a fig leaf to cover the lease, it’s OK and within policy, ...
> Incorrect, as that is not what I said – at no point did I say “VPN
> services that never carry traffic” represent a valid technical need.
> A party which indicates on their resource request that their technical
> need is driven by growth in VPN services that _never_ will carry any
> actual traffic would be obviously be engaging in some creative
> fabrication, and thus declined.
>> but without such GRE tunnels, you believe it to be a violation of policy.
>> Glad to have you on record for this (though still not convinced
>> that’s what the policy manual actually says).
> As noted above, you can try to reinterpret the policy language all day
> to justify leasing as a valid need for number resources, but that’s
> contrary to the understanding of the ARIN community and more than two
> decades of operating practice.
> If you really want to change ARIN’s existing number resource policy to
> meet your creative new world view, please put in a policy proposal to
> make the change and let the community discuss and decide whether
> solely utilization due to leasing of address space to others should be
> considered a valid need for receiving additional number resource
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> American Registry for Internet Numbers
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