[arin-ppml] Change of Use and ARIN (was: Re: AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System)

Paul E McNary pmcnary at cameron.net
Wed Sep 8 17:11:06 EDT 2021


This discussion has me sooooooooo confused! 
What is up, what is down, what is left, what is right. 
I seem to be hearing, if you want this, you have to hold your mouth just right, and then you can't do that. 

None of this discussion has made any sense to me 

Paul McNary 


From: "Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML" <arin-ppml at arin.net> 
To: "John Curran" <jcurran at arin.net> 
Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net 
Sent: Wednesday, September 8, 2021 4:02:00 PM 
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Change of Use and ARIN (was: Re: AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System) 






On Sep 7, 2021, at 11:03 , John Curran < [ mailto:jcurran at arin.net | jcurran at arin.net ] > wrote: 

On 7 Sep 2021, at 1:34 PM, Owen DeLong < [ mailto:owen at delong.com | owen at delong.com ] > wrote: 

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We will number X internet connected hosts on our own infrastructure 




That is fine and routinely satisfied. 


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and Y internet connected hosts on our customers’ networks. 

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That’s not considered part of your technical need for your organization's network, and would be excluded. 

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I’m talking about in an LIR application, not end user… Try again. 

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The conservation principle an overall principle contained in section 1 – i.e. "1. Principles and Goals of the American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)” i 

As such, the issuance of number resources must be for “ a technical need for them in support of operational networks." 

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Right… And an LIR’s customers with operational networks would be such a valid technical need regardless of where or how 
that LIR’s customers connected those networks to whatever other networks. What am I missing? 


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Would ARIN decline such a request? If so, where in policy is the basis to decline such a request? 

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The portion related to another organization’s technical need for number resources would be declined, as the conservation principle in NRPM section 1 requires that ARIN issues number resources to organizations based on their _technical need_ in support of operational networks – 

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So how do LIRs work in the ARIN region under this circumstance? 

How does Comcast have so much space if they don’t distribute a lot of it to their customers under ARIN policy? 
Same question for AT&T, Verizon, AWS, Microsoft, XO Communications, Savvis, Century Link (or whatever they call themselves this week), etc.? 

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They do distribute IP addresses to their customers as a result of the provision of their network services. 

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So this is still another organization’s technical need for number resources. It’s not the LIR’s need for number resources, 
it’s their customers’ need for those resources. That’s my point. 


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1. Principles and Goals of the American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) 
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... 
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1.2. Conservation 
The principle of conservation guarantees sustainability of the Internet through efficient utilization of unique number resources. 

Due to the requirement for uniqueness, Internet number resources of each type are drawn from a common number space. Conservation of these common number spaces requires that Internet number resources be efficiently distributed to those organizations who have a technical need for them in support of operational networks. 
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If for some reason you’d like the concept of “technical need" for number resources to somehow be redefined to encompass your financial desire to satisfy the number resource needs of other organizations, then submit a proposal to change policy accordingly for consideration by the ARIN community. 

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Nope… I’m fine with current policy, but I don’t think you’ve answered the actual question as it appears that you’ve applied end-user criteria to what I am terming as an LIR request. 

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Principle applies the same either way. As you noted, there is a way around that - provision VPN services with IP address as a component of that service. 

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OK, so as long as GRE tunnels that never actually carry traffic are created as a fig leaf to cover the lease, it’s OK and within policy, but without such GRE tunnels, you believe it to be a violation of policy. 

Glad to have you on record for this (though still not convinced that’s what the policy manual actually says). 

Owen 


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