[arin-ppml] Change of Use and ARIN (was: Re: AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System)

Chris Woodfield chris at semihuman.com
Tue Sep 7 16:04:53 EDT 2021


Jordi - 

Correction noted, I erred in using the terms interchangeably. s/community/membership

For the record, ARIN’s PDP does explicitly empower the Board to reject or remand a Recommended Draft Policy that has reached community consensus: https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/#8-board-of-trustees-review <https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/#8-board-of-trustees-review> This is rare, but it has happened, with ARIN-2017-12 being the most recent example from my memory: https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/2018-October/032593.html 

-C

> On Sep 7, 2021, at 12:39 PM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml at arin.net> wrote:
> 
> Unless I recall it incorrectly, they are elected by the *membership* not the *community*. There is a huge difference.
>  
> In other regions, the chairs of the PDP are elected by the community. The board is still elected by the membership, but the board has nothing to say in regards to PDP/policy making process. Further to that, only one RIR (LACNIC) has explicitly indicated in the PDP that the board could reject a policy that reached consensus and return it to the policy list for further discussion. I don’t think it happened ever – I agree that this is a good think in order to protect the membership/organization if the community gets crazy, but it must be clearly proven and explained with no doubts or signs of attempt of community decisions manipulation.
>  
> AFRINIC board violated the PDP very recently by rejecting a policy that reached consensus, while the AFRINIC PDP doesn’t allow that. It is almost a clear “terrorist attack” towards the community. The irony is that this policy was precisely allowing them to take urgent actions with policies in case of “emergency situations” (which will need to reach consensus by the community at the following meeting), which today is not allowed according to the PDP.
>  
> Regards,
> Jordi
> 
> @jordipalet
> 
>  
> 
>  
>  
> El 7/9/21 20:04, "ARIN-PPML en nombre de Chris Woodfield" <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> en nombre de chris at semihuman.com <mailto:chris at semihuman.com>> escribió:
>  
> Don’t forget the the ultimate say does, in fact, lie with the community, in that the members of the Board and the Advisory Council are elected by the community.
>  
> While there’s always the potential for a cynical take on the community’s ability to affect meaningful change when needed, I’d hope that any egregious policy decisions made by these bodies - decisions that the community agrees are not in line with their collective interests - would result in the Board and/or AC members responsible for those decisions having a much more difficult time with their future re-election campaigns than they would otherwise.
>  
> -Chris
> 
> 
>> On Sep 7, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Fernando Frediani <fhfrediani at gmail.com <mailto:fhfrediani at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>  
>> Hi Elvis
>>  
>> I have the same view as you do.
>> Despite this undertanding (and maybe the Board too - and correct me if I don't reproduce it accuratelly) I refuse the view that "PDP is a concession of the Board to the Community" and - this is what makes it even more controvertial - that 'this does not void ICP-2" due to historical reasons or whatever justification.
>>  
>> They are entiteled to their opinion but I do not believe that corrensponds to practical realitty.
>>  
>> I sincerelly hope that not only ARIN Board by any other RIR Board never void the bottom-up process and respect the ultimate power of community to choose how policies will be, not the Board unilaterally at their will.
>>  
>> Obviouslly this doesn't confuse with the prerrogative of the RIR Board to care about the organization protection and legal protection and I support that including the prerrogative of the Boards to ractify proposals that reached consensus.
>>  
>> Regards
>> Fernando
>>  
>> On Tue, 7 Sep 2021, 14:10 Elvis Daniel Velea, <elvis at velea.eu <mailto:elvis at velea.eu>> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 7, 2021, at 09:10, Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>> While the Board delegates the administration of policy development routinely to the ARIN AC, but it retains ultimate authority commensurate with the responsibility that they must bear for the organization.
>>>>  
>>>> This is a very useful clarification to have available for those who continue to argue that the community is the ultimate authority on policy matters. Thank you.
>>>  
>>> Very surprised to see John explain how the bottom-up process works (or not) in ARIN and how much influence the ARIN Board has on policy.
>>>  
>>> I am also extremely surprised to see the difference in PDP between ARIN and the rest of the RIRs as per John’s statement above.
>>>  
>>> Elvis
>>>  
>>>  
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